In this case the stub was a single sentence which included a false claim. So that didn't work.
This is untrue Guy. The claim in that single sentence was that Guille is leader of the Canadian Heritage Alliance and a Lexis-Nexis search returns a number of reliable sources that say exactly that. Moreover, it also returns several references, in headlines no less, to her being a "white supremacist". I don't see how your deletion and SALTING of the article is justifiable and if you'd done a simple search you would have known not to do it.
At the Deletion Review debate at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_April_14#Mel... you seem to be more upset at being challenged than anything else and are rallying for people to support you. That's perfectly human and I don't want to chastize you for it, but it's also incompatible with being a professional. Rather than taking a sober second look, you've dug in your heels and asked your friends to support you and a number of them are but reading the Deletion Review it looks like they're supporting you blindly and not actually looking at the article or looking at sources. This isn't good for wikipedia, we should be better able to scrutinize one another's work without oversensitivity or blindness.
Doing a free Lexis-Nexis a la carte search at http://alacarte.lexisnexis.comhttp://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2 /partners/int/lexisnews/srchNWhttp://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2 .http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2 asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2for "Melissa Guille" for all available dates of non-US and wire sources this is what I find and, I'm sorry Guy, but it looks like there's more than enough to justify the claims that you describe as "defamation". Frankly, it looks like you've been had.
WH0 ARE THEY?; FREE PRESS REPORTER RANDY RICHMOND PROFILES THE MOST PROMINENT WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN LONDON. THEIR BACKGROUNDS RANGE FROM UNIVERSITY HISTORY GRADUATE TO DIGITAL DESIGNER TO FORMER BRINKS DRIVER. *London Free Press (Ontario)* - 3/28/2005 - 406 words Melissa Guille The white supremacist movement attracts far fewer women than men. That makes Londoner Melissa Guille unusual enough. Even more surprising, she leads a white supremacist group with a high profile in Canada. That has made Guille, a single mother of one teenage boy, the white supremacist movement's... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219830&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Pride leader faces charges; Melissa Guille, one of few female white supremacy organizers, is facing human rights charges. *London Free Press (Ontario)* - 11/20/2006 - 448 words One of the few female organizers in Canada's white pride movement, and a potential national leader, is to appear today on charges she violated Canada's Human Rights Act. Melissa Guille and her Southwestern Ontario-based Canadian Heritage Alliance have been brought before a Canadian human rights tribunal in Toronto on... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219831&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ RIGHTS COMMISSION TO QUIZ LONDONER; THE COMPLAINT AGAINST MELISSA GUILLE ALLEGES THAT HER WEBSITE INCITES ETHNIC HATRED. *London Free Press (Ontario)* - 12/18/2005 - 505 words Another leader of London's white supremacy movement faces a grilling at a Canadian human rights tribunal hearing. A complaint against Melissa Guille,head of the Canadian Heritage Alliance, has been investigated by the Canadian Human Rights Commission and referred to a tribunal hearing, Ottawa lawyer Richard Warman said yesterday.... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219832&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ CITY COPS WARN OF RACIST UPSURGE; POLICE LINK THREE WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS IN LONDON WITH INCREASED DANGER OFVIOLENCE. *London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)* - 10/31/2002 - 674 words Three white supremacy groups have set up operations in London, police and activists warn, sparking fears of violence and racist activities in the city. Already one assault on a non-white male has been linked by police to members of what they believe are hate groups. But a leader of... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219833&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ 'Not promoting hate'; Leader of white supremacy group says it doesn't have a racist agenda *The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 2/27/2001 - 598 words One of the leaders of a new Kitchener-Waterloo group denied yesterday that it has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo regional police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. But in an interview through the doorway... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219834&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Group leader denies racist agenda *The Cambridge Reporter* - 2/27/2001 - 429 words One of the leaders of a new Kitchener-Waterloo group denied yesterday that it has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo regional police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. But in an interview through the doorway... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219835&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Kitchener: White supremacist group adopts local road; 'We should not give this space and publicity to this group,' says head of anti-racism program *The Cambridge Reporter* - 4/18/2001 - 631 words Critics claim Waterloo Region appears to have been unwittingly duped by a white supremacist group in agreeing to post its name on a sign in the region's "adopt-a-road" program. "Mistakes happen but let's clear them up," said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is director of the anti-racism program... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219836&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Year 12 MERITS *The Advertiser* - 12/31/1999 - 5422 words The Senior Secondary Assessment Board of South Australia awards merit certificates to Year 12 students who have attained a subject achievement socre of 20 out of 20 in any subject. The following 993 names are the names of merit certificate winners for 1999, as supplied by SSABSA. A total of 996 students received merits, but... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219837&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ WHY ARE THEY HERE?; LONDON POLICE AND CIVIC OFFICIALS TEND TO PLAY DOWN THE PRESENCE OF ORGANIZED HATE. BUT ANTI-HATE GROUPS SAY THERE'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM. INDISPUTABLE IS THE FACT THAT LONDON IS HOME TO AT LEAST TWO WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS AND THEIR LEADERS. *London Free Press (Ontario)* - 3/26/2005 - 1461 words The word hate comes easily to Londoner Tomasz Winnicki. "We do hate . . . the negroes and other mud races who flood into our clean, white civilizations and then wreck them," he e-mails in response to a request for an interview. "We hate the Jew: the media Jew, the banking Jew,... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219838&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=1&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ WHO ARE THEY?; OTHERS *London Free Press (Ontario)* - 3/28/2005 - 230 words Other notable white supremacists in the London area include: TYLER CHILCOTT: Longtime member of the Northern Alliance, who complained his rights were violated when London police wrote a letter to the group requesting attendance at a meeting at the police station. He was involved in a fracas between white... LONDONER, GROUP FACE RIGHTS COMPLAINT *London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)* - 10/25/2004 - 428 words Another high-profile member of London's white supremacist network, and a city white supremacist group, are facing a complaint filed with the Canadian Human Rights Commission. Melissa Guille and the Canadian Heritage Alliance are the subject of a complaint filed by Ottawa lawyer Richard Warman. Guilleis well-known in supremacist... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219844&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Ontario group denies police allegations it has racist agenda *Guelph Mercury (Ontario, Canada)* - 2/27/2001 - 209 words One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. "We are a nationalist group, not a... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219845&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ No racist agenda, organization insists *North Bay Nugget (Ontario)* - 2/27/2001 - 235 words WATERLOO (CP) One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. ``We are a nationalist group,... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219846&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ No racist agenda, organization insists *North Bay Nugget (Ontario)* - 2/27/2001 - 235 words WATERLOO (CP) One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. ``We are a nationalist group,... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219847&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Deaths & Funerals *Times Colonist (Victoria, British Columbia)* - 1/30/2007 - 1844 words GRANT, Harold Beverley Born in Weyburn, Saskatchewan on December 4 1919 Harold passed away on January 28, 2007. Predeceased by his wife Elva (1983) and son Jim (2002), and survived by his four children Barbara (Henry), Ron (Brenda), Judy (Ralph), Ken (Carol), sister Phyllis, eight grandchildren, five great grandchildren, seven step great grandchildren, 2 step grandchildren... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219848&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Rights groups offended by sign *The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 4/18/2001 - 745 words A white supremacist group appears to have duped Waterloo Region into posting its name on a sign in the region's "adopt-a-road" program, critics say. "Mistakes happen, but let's clear them up," said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is director of the anti-racism program at the Guelph and District... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219849&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ WATERLOO SUPREMACIST GROUP HAS ROAD 'ADOPTION' REVOKED *The Toronto Star* - 4/19/2001 - 403 words Sign is plucked from roadside Liz Monteiro TORSTAR NEWS SERVICE KITCHENER - Waterloo Region moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five workers, including a road supervisor, were removing a sign for the region's "adopt-a-road" program from Dickie Settlement Rd. The sign, bearing the name of... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219850&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ SCALDED DOG SENTENCE LABELLED 'SLAP ON THE WRIST' *The Daily Herald-Tribune (Grande Prairie, Alberta)* - 2/9/2004 - 233 words Animal welfare organizations were upset Friday after a judge fined a woman $200 for seriously scalding her pet dog. ''We're concerned this sends a message that animal abuse is not to be taken seriously and perhaps that animals aren't valued as much in society as they should be,'' said View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219851&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Kitchener; White supremacist group's sign yanked *The Cambridge Reporter* - 4/19/2001 - 256 words The Region of Waterloo moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five regional workers, including a road supervisor, were removing a sign with the region's "adopt-a-road" program from Dickie Settlement Road. The sign was sponsored by the local white supremacist group, the Canadian Heritage Alliance.... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219852&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ White supremacists adopt section of road *Guelph Mercury (Ontario, Canada)* - 4/18/2001 - 295 words Waterloo Region appears to have been duped by the Canadian Heritage Alliance, a white supremacist group, in agreeing to post its name on a sign in the region's adopt-a-road programme, critics say. Mistakes happen but let's clear them up, said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is director of... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219853&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=2&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type=
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http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/results.asp?rtid=1&lnsearch_id=AD8D234BB5C2115F8266B7D16412135EB5C6062CA64AE41D7BA6DC7A85DFF83E6CDA241D5AEF9DD836746B878C5578D4FD0F8A73478F9C5E469C41578FB0F7F9AC67E8028C4F43A961F9DFD23101A5A0AB2D6C1F7DE78E4DB3F801ED5BF125DEADFBBCD1511CDE9FD070EA40CA82E57C&page=1#top *11 - 20* of *59* http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/results.asp?rtid=1&lnsearch_id=AD8D234BB5C2115F8266B7D16412135EB5C6062CA64AE41D7BA6DC7A85DFF83E6CDA241D5AEF9DD836746B878C5578D4FD0F8A73478F9C5E469C41578FB0F7F9AC67E8028C4F43A961F9DFD23101A5A0AB2D6C1F7DE78E4DB3F801ED5BF125DEADFBBCD1511CDE9FD070EA40CA82E57C&page=3#top Just the facts *Calgary Herald (Alberta, Canada)* - 3/26/2004 - 180 words Re: "White supremacists scrap meeting plans," March 2. Your article contains several errors and misinformation. First, the meeting in question did take place March 1 in Edmonton. Second, false labels were attached to the two named participants because your reporter chose to speak only to the Anti-Racist Action, a member of... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219855&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=3&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Group was maligned *The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 3/7/2001 - 228 words I am responding to the personal nature and attack of the misleading articles published on Feb. 24 and 27 regarding the Canadian Heritage Alliance. Record reporter Brian Caldwell appeared at my door declaring he would write an article regardless of my participation. Caldwell came with an agenda and an axe to... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219856&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=3&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ Free speech is chained *The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 5/1/2001 - 174 words It's interesting that the April 19 editorial, Chain Fence Won't Chain Free Speech, appeared the same day as the Canadian Heritage Alliance had its Adopt-a-Road signs removed. In Canada today, it seems violence and civil disobedience is a media darling, while genuine political thought and analysis is stifled by rumour... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219857&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=3&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------ LONDON NO PLACE FOR RACISM *London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)* - 11/10/2002 - 202 words In the article, City cops warn of racist upsurge (Oct. 31), Melissa Guilleof the Heritage Alliance was quoted as saying "We are not criminals. What would violence gain?" and "Because I promote European heritage, I am considered a racist?" My reply to her is, yes. No matter how you... View now for $3.00 http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/order.asp?docid=15219858&search_id=41604396-1696-4575-8532-96E591033422&page=3&returnpage=results.asp&returnmtid=1&search_type= ------------------------------
------------------------------ 'Offensive' adopt-a-road sign removed by regional workers *The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 4/19/2001 - 483 words The Region of Waterloo moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five regional workers, including a road supervisor, were removing a sign with the region's adopt-a-road program from Dickie Settlement Road. The sign was sponsored by the local white supremacist group, the Canadian Heritage Alliance.... Cost for these Items Items Viewed (0) $0.00 Items in Cart (0) $0.00 Total Items (0) $0.00 Proceed to Checkouthttp://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/cart.asp
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On 4/15/07, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:06:45 -0400, Jeff Raymond jeff.raymond@internationalhouseofbacon.com wrote:
I think we're leaning too far toward the "shoot first" mentality, honestly, and when it results in a complete deletion, that's a problem. Remove possibly libellious commentary? Okay. Make no effort on sourcing while doing it? Not as comfortable. Delete the article entirely instead of stubbing it? Certainly not okay in my mind.
In this case the stub was a single sentence which included a false claim. So that didn't work. And that was done by a very good editor, too, so it's not his fault, the problem is that the source for the claim, which is not a good one, is flatly contradicted by the subject. In a conflict between a poor source and a flat denial by the subject, the subject wins.
Guy (JzG)
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
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