WikiEN-l January 2007

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176 participants
354 discussions

Water chestnuts
by Gregory Kohs 23 Jan '07

23 Jan '07

Could somebody please explain why [[Water chestnut]] is a disambiguation page (with, in my opinion, neither splitting article really doing a good job of describing the tuber that most English-speaking people are familiar with from either a grocery store can or their local Chinese restaurant), while [[Corn]] (which redirects to [[Maize]]) is a really nice article that talks about the corn we all know and love, while having a convenient, unobtrusive "disambig" flag at the top? Doesn't the water chestnut deserve a little better than this confusing disambiguation page? It's a pretty common food. Does the Wikipedia community really expect users to find their way specifically to [[Eleocharis dulcis]] to get a half-decent write-up on the water chestnuts that many of their recipes call for? -- Gregory Kohs Cell: 302.463.1354

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Water chestnuts
by Gregory Kohs 23 Jan '07

23 Jan '07

Oldak says: ++++++++++++++++ Just some quick Google results: +"Water chestnut" +"Eleocharis dulcis" ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%2B%22Water+chestnut%22+%2B%22Eleocharis+d… ) produces 807 results) +"Water chestnut" +"Trapa natans" ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox&rls=org.mozill… ) gives 25,700 results Without searching further, wouldn't the page (were it not a disambiguation page) better point to T. natans, rather than E. dulcis as you suggest? +++++++++++++++++ Oldak, I don't mean to be snippy, but, I don't really care what Google results on that search say, if (according to Wikipedia)... Water caltrop is: "sold as an occasional streetside snack in the south of" China. Eleocharis dulcis is: "The small, rounded corms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corm> have a crispy white flesh and can be eaten raw, slightly boiled, grilled, pickled, or tinned <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning>. They are a popular ingredient in Western-style Chinese dishes. In China, they are most often eaten raw, sometimes sweetened. They can also be ground into a flour<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour>which is used especially to make fried cakes called *matigao* (马蹄糕; mǎtí gāo). They are unusual among vegetables for remaining crisp even after being cooked or canned." Which one do you think 98% of Wikipedia users are actually searching for? How many of them might be confused by their "eenie meenie mynie moe" on the disambiguation page. And Thomas Dalton said: ********************** It would appear that two different plants are known as "Water chestnut" and neither is significantly more important than the other, so we have a disambig page. ********************** To which I'd say, see "above". By the way, great point from Andrew Gray about the "corn" issue, especially in Europe. Maybe "corn" was not my best counter-example. How about: [[Nutmeg]]? -- Gregory Kohs Cell: 302.463.1354

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Wikipedia Club of NYC and 31 January 2007 event.
by Christopher Thieme 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

> Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:04:51 -0500 > From: "Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)" <newyorkbrad(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia Club of New York - 31 January 2007 event > To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > Message-ID: <c52819d30701201404v458ed2e7kf144ad72777b6c87(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > > On 1/11/07, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> wrote:> Washington, DC. > > > They moved my 26 January trip... instead of NYC, I am going to > > > On the evening of 31 January, the free culture group at NYU will be > > > hosting a party, probably this would be good for a joint meeting? > > > > Dear Mr. Wales: > > I think we should probably team up with the Free Culture Group at NYU for > > the Wednesday, 31 January 2007 event. Is there a contact person at NYU I > > can get in touch with in order to facilitate some cooperation between us > > and > > them...possibly assist them in getting the event going? If so, please > > pass > > along my e-mail address to them. > > Regards, > > Christopher D. Thieme > > User:ExplorerCDT > > > Following up on the status of this event, if anyone could kindly advise. > > Regards, > Newyorkbrad Brad- No response from Mr. Wales or surprisingly the NYU Free Culture group. Right now, up in the air. Regards, Christopher D. Thieme User:ExplorerCDT

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Microsoft asks for NPOVing of OOXML articles
by David Gerard 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2007/01/an_interesting_offer.html Note that the person writing that appears entirely on the level, by the way. Heck, he posted openly about Microsoft asking him about it. Personally, I've found getting NPOV on [[OpenOffice.org]] a goddamn nightmare, and I'm a fan. There's something about open-source and free-software related articles that attracts REALLY OBNOXIOUS partisans, who don't understand NPOV and don't care - they see Wikipedia as another platform for advocacy. [[Internet Explorer]] is a carefully written NPOV article, most free-software articles have fallen entirely to the advocates. This is a bad thing. If you want to check editing on the subjects, by the way, please remember not to bite the newbies! - d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] defused timebomb
by Fred Bauder 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

>-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Raymond [mailto:jeff.raymond@internationalhouseofbacon.com] >Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 08:57 PM >To: 'English Wikipedia' >Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] defused timebomb > >Ken Arromdee wrote: >> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Jeff Raymond wrote: >>> Meanwhile, I've already restored about 5 of those in the article, and >>> I'll try to get to more later. a quick post somewhere saing "we know >>> these things are true, can we find sources" and it'd be done in 5 >>> minutes. Instead, knee-jerk reaction time, whee!!! >> >> It isn't knee jerk reaction time, it's [[WP:BLP]] time. > >There's a difference? > >-Jeff If a person is familiar with [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons]] and knows how it ought to be applied in various situations, they may act swiftly and appropriately. Such behavior is to be distinguished from simple knee-jerk deletetion of drama. Well-sourced reports of dramatic events are quite acceptable on Wikipedia. Fred

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Re: [WikiEN-l] a few new wrinkles in the external link issue
by Jeff Raymond 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

Pedro Sanchez wrote: > Except, that in order to get approved, bots must go on a trial period > so we can evaluate what and how it does. I believe the consensus on > those who got involved was that the bot was good. Of course, [[WP:CCC|consensus can change]]. Not a lot of people pay attention to the bot approval process, and if people see the bot not working the way it's expected or in a way they like, that might have to be dealt with. There was next to no discussion regarding Shadowbot1, for example. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. -Jeff -- If you can read this, I'm not at home.

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Fwd: [Wikitech-l] First upload of quantitative results (WikiXRay)
by David Gerard 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Felipe Ortega <glimmer_phoenix(a)yahoo.es> Date: 22-Jan-2007 12:35 Subject: [Wikitech-l] First upload of quantitative results (WikiXRay) To: wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Hi all. Finally, the first upload of images created with WikiXRay is available: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiXRay For next updates I'll try to use Commonist for faster upload of lots of files. Any comments about the graphics are welcomed. Saludos. Felipe Ortega. --------------------------------- LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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mydatapages.com mirroring w/o credit or GFDL notice
by George Herbert 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

The website mydatapages.com is returning older Wikipedia page content for searches, and has no WP credit or GFDL notice on it. I don't know who the appropriate internal people are to take a look at this, but I am hoping that someone here can forward it properly (and/or is the right person themselves)... Thanks. -- -george william herbert george.herbert(a)gmail.com

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defused timebomb
by Pedro Sanchez 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

I just blanked, and deleted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_people_responsible_for_a_death We had names of many famous people, stating they were responsible for someone else dying. ** Not a single reference ** I was told that I should have AFD it instead The potential for libel was huge, afd was likely to come as no consensus or delete. Wikimedia can't take the risk of being sued for the sake of process. So I deleted the entry to hide history, and drop a note stating should anybody readd content it must be with references. Probably many people will complain and ask for my head, just telling you people why I did it. -- drini

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Re: [WikiEN-l] editorial oversight, re: afd, fac, etc.
by Ryzvel＠3mail.com 21 Jan '07

21 Jan '07

I don't know how common is. It's just that I can't think of a justification for it. Anyway, I may have better luck in the relevant language section whence the thing originates. Tim . . . K P schreef: > On 1/19/07, Ryzvel(a)3mail.com <Ryzvel(a)3mail.com> wrote: > > > > I was intrigued last year to find that somebody had deleted one of my > > contributions on the grounds that the deletor [?] had never heard of it. > > Acting on this criterion, I would spend my waking hours deleting Wikipedia > > articles. Tim . . . > > > Yes, that seems to hold a lot of weight in deletionist debates, someone who > has never worked in the sciences never heard of a scientific concept and > doesn't understand the underlying basics, but thinks the article should be > deleted because it's on a concept they "had never heard of." {{cite}} That's the second time you've claimed that this is common, and we haven't yet seen a single example. So I've checked today's AfD (just as I did last time), and of the 110 nominations so far, there were 0 because the nominator "had never heard of" the subject. Also, the phrase "never heard" occurs only three times on the page, and in none of those cases, it is the sole reason for deletion. I do not see it having any weight in deletion debates. (Where can I find the deletionist debates you're speaking of?) Eugene _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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WikiEN-l January 2007