A welcome page or a portal would probably be a good
idea if someone was willing to set one up for classes
using Wikipedia. The biggest problem I've seen with
class projects is the mass insertion of copyrighted
material, which is bad for us and bad for them since
you'd expect college students to understand the
ramifications of plagiarism. So any welcome page
should explicitly spell out the copyright issue. Also
I think we should recommend that they contribute as
registered users so that any copyright issues can be
attributed to one user, and if they are getting credit
for their contributions they can be penalised for
plagiarism.
--Peta
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
> Assuming good faith, all these Dartmouth students will want to write a
> _useful_ article for their course credit. So, let's help them do so.
>
> Would it be worth putting together a quick welcoming page, targeted at
> these students (and anyone else coming along later on the same sort of
> project, since there will be more), which points out resources like
> [[Wikipedia:Requested articles]], [[Wikipedia:Requested article
> translations]] (hey, *I'd* offer bonus credit for a translation),
> [[Wikipedia:Most wanted articles]] &c, with some notes on the kind of
> thing we'd really like and the kind of thing we'd discourage?
>
> This'd also serve as an opportunity to make links like the Help Desk
> clear, mention the talk pages of some users willing to assist, &c
> &c... thoughts?
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
> andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk
I think that is a most bodaciously doubleplusgood idea.
Particularly the idea of being positive and suggesting
things we WANT.
As this is the last day of my vacation I will have less
time to work on Wikipedia so maybe you could...
take the initiative on this? I'd be glad to help out,
and by all means put me on the list of users willing to assist
(my Wikipedia username is, you'll never guess this, dpbsmith).
--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith(a)verizon.net
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/
> From: fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] How to work better with brittle users?
>
> There's a common personality type for trouble on Wikipedia: brittle in
> interactions with others, can't tolerate ambiguity, so gets into
> rules-lawyering. Sees "common sense" and "judgement" mostly as
> excuses to
> exercise bias, not as recognition that all rules are fluid in the
> pursuit
> of our goal.
>
> I am not thinking of any individual, but of a general type I've
> noticed. I
> think something about Wikipedia will tend to attract them. I would
> *guess*
> it's something that attracts people from further up the autistic
> spectrum
> than the general populace, but that's just speculation.
>
> The point is that they're good and hard-working contributors, but
> can get
> difficult to work with. And putting them on a processing line that
> leads to
> arbitration strikes me as not being a good thing. Is there a better
> way?
> I welcome your thoughts and speculation.
I agree. No answer, but a great question.
And of course this is a general phenomenon on the Internet. In fact I
read an article somewhere that there are a significant number of
autistic individuals who are managing to earn a living primarily
because computer-mediated interactions (email, etc.) provides some
protective insulation against the direct personal contacts that they
have trouble managing.
I don't think I'm going to mention where _I_ score on the AQ test,
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
I've also opined (and got shot down on the basis of its being pure
speculation) that some of these "brittle" contributors are just very
_young._ I had a personal run-in with one contributor who
indiscreetly revealed (or asserted) an age in the very early teens. I
have to think that some of the emphasis on pop-culture, fancraft,
Harry Potter, and Pokemon topics is age-related. And a certain degree
of "brittleness" is characteristic of adolescents in general, and
bright adolescents whose intellectual and emotional development is
out of sync in particular.
A common characteristic of that age is a total inability to let
things go and not sweat the small stuff. Every tiny rejection is
fought tooth and nail, not for personal reasons of course, but
because of The Principle Of The Thing.
I am sure that if I personally were fourteen years old right now I
would a) be contributing to Wikipedia and b) would be one of those
"brittle" and problematic users.
Instead of being the trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent,
and modest person I am now.
--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith(a)verizon.net
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/
NSK,
It is not true that you did this because it was REQUIRED. You did it to
direct traffic to your web site. You even created a sock puppet account
with your web site address as its username.
You have 2 choices at this point:
1. Donate the words you wrote DIRECTLY to Wikipedia (agreeing with the
disclaimer you surely saw, next to the 'save' button, which licenses
Wikipedia to use that text in accordance with the GNU Free Documentation
Licenses); or,
2. We will rewrite the article completely - making a fresh start of it.
This will remove the issue of an attribution notice.
If you don't make a choice promptly (and politely!) I will make the
choice for you, and it will be #2. I remind you of [[Wikipedia:Gaming
the system]]; have you read it yet?
Also, it seems likely that you do not understand GFDL. Once you license
some text under the GFDL, it is no longer "yours". A republisher need
only comply with the minimum requirements, which is to credit you as the
author.
There is no obligation to link to a website you are trying to advertise.
Ed Poor
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NSK [mailto:nsk2@wikinerds.org]
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:57 AM
> To: English Wikipedia
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Sphaera Mundi
>
>
> On 1 August 2005 I decided to contribute an article from my wiki
> http://www.jnanabase.org in Wikipedia. My wiki is GFDL, just
> like Wikipedia.
>
> I proceeded and copied the text from my wiki's article and I
> pasted it to a
> new Wikipedia article [[Sphaera Mundi]]:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphaera_Mundi
>
> Because the article was written in my wiki (which has 1834
> pages), I added a
> standard attribution notice to cite the source, with a link
> back to my wiki's
> original article, as per required by GFDL and Wikipedia's policy:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources
>
> On 3 August 2005 another Wikipedia user edited the article and added
> categories. On 9 August 2005 a different user cleaned it up
> and disambiguated
> some links.
>
> On 12 August 2005, [[User:UninvitedCompany]], who is a sysop,
> removed the
> attribution notice.
>
> On 14 August 2005, [[User:Joe Kress]] (I don't know that
> user) re-added the
> attribution notice, as Wikipedia's policy requires:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources
>
> 2 hours later UninvitedCompany removed the notice again. 3
> hours later I added
> again the notice.
>
> We had some discussion with UninvitedCompany and he says the
> source of
> [[Sphaera Mundi]]'s shouldn't be included in the article
> because it's an
> "unreliable source" and because it's "spam", although my wiki
> appears in the
> 3rd position in a Google search for "sphaera mundi" and most
> other pages of
> my website have a PageRank of 6, while the site has been
> slashdotted 4 times:
> http://portal.wikinerds.org/taxonomy/term/49
>
> According to the GFDL licence and copyright laws, proper
> attribution must be
> provided. Citing where an article was copied from is not spam.
>
> In a similar incident, I also copied an article from my wiki to a new
> Wikipedia article with title [[Erhard Ratdolt]], with an
> attribution notice.
> When UninvitedCompany removed the attribution notice, another
> sysop deleted
> the article saying "copyvio of Wikinerds. Deleting." - and
> this shows that an
> article copied from an external GFDL source into Wikipedia
> without proper
> attribution is copyright violation and a violation of the
> GFDL licence.
>
> If the notice is deleted again from [[Sphaera Mundi]] (or any
> other article
> from my wiki without proper attribution), I will request its deletion.
>
> This sysop also removed other attribution notices and various
> other edits I
> have made, so I believe he is bullying me. I have requested
> mediation and I
> have collected all evidence at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Www.wikinerds.org/Bullying
>
> Please someone explain to this sysop that articles copied
> from external GFDL
> wikis must contain proper attribution. We don't want our
> articles to appear
> in Wikipedia without attribution of the source. If you don't
> want to include
> the attribution link, please delete articles copied from Wikinerds.
>
> --
> Owner of http://www.wikinerds.org/
> Owner of http://www.jnanabase.org/
>
>
On 1 August 2005 I decided to contribute an article from my wiki
http://www.jnanabase.org in Wikipedia. My wiki is GFDL, just like Wikipedia.
I proceeded and copied the text from my wiki's article and I pasted it to a
new Wikipedia article [[Sphaera Mundi]]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphaera_Mundi
Because the article was written in my wiki (which has 1834 pages), I added a
standard attribution notice to cite the source, with a link back to my wiki's
original article, as per required by GFDL and Wikipedia's policy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources
On 3 August 2005 another Wikipedia user edited the article and added
categories. On 9 August 2005 a different user cleaned it up and disambiguated
some links.
On 12 August 2005, [[User:UninvitedCompany]], who is a sysop, removed the
attribution notice.
On 14 August 2005, [[User:Joe Kress]] (I don't know that user) re-added the
attribution notice, as Wikipedia's policy requires:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources
2 hours later UninvitedCompany removed the notice again. 3 hours later I added
again the notice.
We had some discussion with UninvitedCompany and he says the source of
[[Sphaera Mundi]]'s shouldn't be included in the article because it's an
"unreliable source" and because it's "spam", although my wiki appears in the
3rd position in a Google search for "sphaera mundi" and most other pages of
my website have a PageRank of 6, while the site has been slashdotted 4 times:
http://portal.wikinerds.org/taxonomy/term/49
According to the GFDL licence and copyright laws, proper attribution must be
provided. Citing where an article was copied from is not spam.
In a similar incident, I also copied an article from my wiki to a new
Wikipedia article with title [[Erhard Ratdolt]], with an attribution notice.
When UninvitedCompany removed the attribution notice, another sysop deleted
the article saying "copyvio of Wikinerds. Deleting." - and this shows that an
article copied from an external GFDL source into Wikipedia without proper
attribution is copyright violation and a violation of the GFDL licence.
If the notice is deleted again from [[Sphaera Mundi]] (or any other article
from my wiki without proper attribution), I will request its deletion.
This sysop also removed other attribution notices and various other edits I
have made, so I believe he is bullying me. I have requested mediation and I
have collected all evidence at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Www.wikinerds.org/Bullying
Please someone explain to this sysop that articles copied from external GFDL
wikis must contain proper attribution. We don't want our articles to appear
in Wikipedia without attribution of the source. If you don't want to include
the attribution link, please delete articles copied from Wikinerds.
--
Owner of http://www.wikinerds.org/
Owner of http://www.jnanabase.org/
> From: Skyring <skyring(a)gmail.com>
> On 8/15/05, Daniel P. B. Smith <dpbsmith(a)verizon.net> wrote
>> A common characteristic of [the early teens] is a total inability
>> to let
>> things go and not sweat the small stuff. Every tiny rejection is
>> fought tooth and nail, not for personal reasons of course, but
>> because of The Principle Of The Thing.
>>
>> I am sure that if I personally were fourteen years old right now I
>> would a) be contributing to Wikipedia and b) would be one of those
>> "brittle" and problematic users.
>
> You know, this is pretty much the feeling I got when I had my first
> experience of Wikiconflict. The other guy came across as an
> opinionated teenager.
>
> I was amused to find that he'd had the same perception of me.
How nice to think that Wikipedia keeps our minds youthful!
--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith(a)verizon.net
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/
Anyone who has 'trouble' following the rules should get a standard
time-out for each violation, until they either
1. Get a clue, or
2. Choose to be elsewhere
This includes me!
And I'm currently trying this out in conjunction with Sarah, with
Gabriel Simon (aka Gavin the Chosen). He has in fact agreed to this, as
an alternative to going before the arbcom.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Gerard [mailto:fun@thingy.apana.org.au]
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:29 AM
> To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] How to work better with brittle users?
>
>
>
> This is a question that has occurred to me in the context of
> arbitration, and how to avoid it.
>
> There's a common personality type for trouble on Wikipedia:
> brittle in interactions with others, can't tolerate
> ambiguity, so gets into rules-lawyering. Sees "common sense"
> and "judgement" mostly as excuses to exercise bias, not as
> recognition that all rules are fluid in the pursuit of our goal.
>
> I am not thinking of any individual, but of a general type
> I've noticed. I think something about Wikipedia will tend to
> attract them. I would *guess* it's something that attracts
> people from further up the autistic spectrum than the general
> populace, but that's just speculation.
>
> The point is that they're good and hard-working contributors,
> but can get difficult to work with. And putting them on a
> processing line that leads to arbitration strikes me as not
> being a good thing. Is there a better way? I welcome your
> thoughts and speculation.
>
>
> - d.
>
>
>
>
Who can I contact to see if I can add links/content to Wikipedia?
> Send WikiEN-l mailing list submissions to
> wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikien-l-request(a)Wikipedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikien-l-owner(a)Wikipedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WikiEN-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Anti-elitism (Jimmy Wales)
> 2. Re: What's wrong with the world? (Andrew Gray)
> 3. Re: What's wrong with the world? (Jimmy Wales)
> 4. Re: What's wrong with the world? (Bryan Derksen)
> 5. Wikipedia and the future of open source (Ben Yates)
> 6. Re: Is this right? (Skyring)
> 7. Re: Copyright situation (Karl Butcher)
> 8. Re: What's wrong with the world? (David Gerard)
> 9. Re: What's wrong with the world? (David Gerard)
> 10. Re: What's wrong with the world? (David Gerard)
> 11. Re: Wikipedia and the future of open source (Alphax)
> 12. Re: Wikipedia and the future of open source (David Gerard)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 13:40:35 +0200
> From: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Anti-elitism
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <42F4A1B3.4040304(a)wikia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Alphax wrote:
>
>> - From what I've heard - and I could be gravely mistaken - and I
>> apologise
>> if I am - Larry's approach was "I have more degrees than you, I made
>> this whole thing happen, therefore I must be right".
>>
>> Sounds exactly like the sort of elitism he warns against.
>
> First, Larry warns us against "anti-elitism" not against "elitism".
> He's an advocate of elitism.
>
> I think your summary of his approach is unfair to him as well. Larry
> would react very badly to the notion that he would ever say "I have more
> degrees than you, etc." That's not like him at all.
>
> Larry and I have our disagreements but I feel that his impact in the
> early years was substantial and should be respected.
>
> --Jimbo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:12:49 +0100
> From: Andrew Gray <shimgray(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world?
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <f3fedb0d050806051244329ff8(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 06/08/05, Phroziac <phroziac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> As was mentioned in #wikimania on IRC, jimbo IS mistakenly misquoted,
>> but nobody really knows what he said. He's been requested to debunk
>> the screwups already.
>
>>From [[Wikipedia:Announcements]]
>
> "Numerous news outlets are quoting a Reuters report that Jimmy Wales
> has stated that there will be a "freeze" on editing. Jimbo says that
> statements about methods for achieving the widely-discussed stable
> "Wikipedia 1.0" were misinterpreted as implying a project-wide
> lockdown. Wikipedia's open editing will continue for the forseeable
> future, and any potential stablized version would exist alongside the
> current system. Jimbo was last seen looking for the 'edit this page'
> link on the Reuters article."
>
> <g>
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
> andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 15:09:00 +0200
> From: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world?
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <42F4B66C.70603(a)wikia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Anthony DiPierro wrote:
>> "'There may soon be so-called stable contents. In this case, we'd freeze
>> the pages whose quality is undisputed,' he said."
>
> This is a translation into English of a statement in German which was a
> translation of something I said in English.
>
> The bit about this being an "announcement" is, well, something they just
> made up from scratch. I made no particular announcement. A reporter
> asked me the usual sort of question about "how can we trust it if it can
> always be changed, maybe it was good but it gets vandalized then, etc."
>
> And I gave my usual sort of answer that we are discussing ways to
> identify particular versions of articles as being good and that we won't
> ever lock articles permanently, even if we do have a stable branch.
>
> Somehow this was turned into an "announcement" that we are changing
> editorial policy and forming a committee to determine which articles to
> lock in perpetuity.
>
> I'm glad to see that the general reaction in the Wikipedia community was
> to doubt the media rather than simply assume that I've gone insane. :-)
>
> --Jimbo
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 08:00:48 -0700
> From: Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world?
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <42F4D0A0.6020603(a)shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8
>
> Jimmy Wales wrote:
>
>>I'm glad to see that the general reaction in the Wikipedia community was
>>to doubt the media rather than simply assume that I've gone insane. :-)
>>
>>
> We all know how hopelessly unreliable the things we read on the Internet
> are. :)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 18:20:14 -0400
> From: Ben Yates <bluephonic(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia and the future of open source
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <2b76523c05080515207d4abfbe(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more
> important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have
> a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
>
> http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ben Yates
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 10:40:48 +1000
> From: Skyring <skyring(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Is this right?
> To: Cyberjunkie <swatso(a)optusnet.com.au>
> Cc: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <550ccb82050805174019fac1c6(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 8/5/05, Cyberjunkie <swatso(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Skyring [mailto:skyring@gmail.com]
>
>> Ah, yes! Mr Anonymous Editor. Good to hear from you again.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=2
>> 11.29.1.21
>>
>> Well, that confirms my opinion of you. You persist only to besmirch
>> others'.
>
> One could say the same of you, brother, given the nature of your
> message. But that would be equally wrong, wouldn't it?
>
> It is hard to Assume Good Faith of that particular message, but you'd
> be hard pressed indeed to find an edit of mine which was malicious or
> intentionally offensive.
>
> --
> Peter in Canberra
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 14:30:24 -0700
> From: Karl Butcher <measure(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Copyright situation
> To: Skyring <skyring(a)gmail.com>, English Wikipedia
> <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <c013b5cf05080414304a075976(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> If Iran joins international copyright treaties, and we haven't respected
> their copyrights, major changes would have to be made all at once. It is
> simpler to respect their copyrights now, so it can't come up as an issue
> later.
> -Measure
>
> On 8/4/05, Skyring <skyring(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 8/5/05, Puddl Duk <puddlduk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > This has come up before on the copyright problems page. Even if we are
>> > legally able (at the moment) to violate Iran's copyright laws, I don't
>> think
>> > that we should.
>>
>> What advantage would there be in doing so? Surely there's nothing in
>> any Iran-related article that HAS to be sourced this way.
>>
>> --
>> Peter in Canberra
>> _______________________________________________
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> For every 12 seconds you've spent reading this email,
> Another person has died due to environmental activism.
> http://www.junkscience.com/malaria_clock.htm
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:30:47 +1000
> From: fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world?
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <20050806143047.GA25060(a)thingy.apana.org.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Phroziac (phroziac(a)gmail.com) [050806 06:07]:
>
>> There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny.
>> I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be
>> edited if they're done?
>
>
> It's a thing called a "wiki" ...
>
> If there's a particularly good version of an article, that version will
> always be in the history and can be linked to directly.
>
> The quality vs content thing tends to go: OK article is polished into
> really well-written article. Someone adds something which is arguably
> relevant but looks lumpy in the structure. So the article has more detail,
> but is only good as opposed to great. Polish again to great. And so on.
>
> As much as it pains me, I suspect more good information is better for the
> reader than beautiful composition, given the choice.
>
>
> - d.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:31:49 +1000
> From: fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world?
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <20050806143149.GB25060(a)thingy.apana.org.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> steve v (vertigosteve(a)yahoo.com) [050806 05:49]:
>
>> From [[ minority ]]:
>> ''This article is about the concept of a minority. For
>> an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority
>> (song)|Minority]].''
>> !
>
>
> Heh. In cases like that, {{otheruses}} on the main article and a disambig
> with two entries seems entirely sensible to me ;-)
>
>
> - d.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:55:17 +1000
> From: fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world?
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <20050806145517.GC25060(a)thingy.apana.org.au>
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>
> Haukur Þorgeirsson (haukurth(a)hi.is) [050806 07:28]:
>
>> On the Norse mythology articles, which is
>> my primary sphere of interest on Wikipedia,
>> irrelevant fancruft tends to accumulate and
>> distract from the main content of the entries.
>> For an example see [[Yggdrasil]] which has
>> a large Popular Culture section and a disambiguation
>> entry, both of which could be summarized with
>> "a bunch of things in a bunch of games/novels/etc.
>> have been named after the mythological Yggdrasil".
>> Sometimes I snap and delete some of the stuff.
>> For example I removed the following from [[Fenrisulfr]]:
>> "Fenrir appears as a summonable character in Squaresoft's Final Fantasy
>> IX. Also it is a summonable creature in Final Fantasy XI."
>
>
> See [[Lilith]] for what seems so far to be a stable solution to this
> problem: all the pop culture is in [[Lilith (disambiguation)]]; and after
> someone re-added the ==Lilith in popular culture== section, I made that
> section's entire contents "See [[Lilith (disambiguation)]]". You'll
> probably want to do that with quite a lot of the pop-culture-infested
> Norse
> mythology articles.
>
>
> - d.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:24:25 +0930
> From: Alphax <alphasigmax(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia and the future of open source
> To: Ben Yates <bluephonic(a)gmail.com>, English Wikipedia
> <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <42F4CF21.6040605(a)gmail.com>
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> Ben Yates wrote:
>> Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more
>> important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have
>> a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
>>
>> http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
>>
>
> The first graph is INSANE. Can you put it on commons or meta?
>
> - --
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:00:01 +1000
> From: fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia and the future of open source
> To: Ben Yates <bluephonic(a)gmail.com>, English Wikipedia
> <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <20050806150001.GD25060(a)thingy.apana.org.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Ben Yates (bluephonic(a)gmail.com) [050807 00:25]:
>
>> Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more
>> important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have
>> a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
>> http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
>
>
> Love that bar chart ;-) It also explains one of Wikipedia's real problems:
> we have a zillion editors making demands, and a way too small number of
> actual developers working on the actual MediaWiki code.
>
>
> - d.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> End of WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23
> ****************************************
>
Ditto here. Just get the data. Even better, you cite it and include it
on the discussion page for the image so that other people can verify
that you're not pulling fast one. Think of this as an opportunity for
improvement.
FF
On 8/8/05, Tyler Riddle <triddle(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Which website you go the photos from and what type of permission did the
> > website give you?
> >
>
> Isn't the easiest way to fix this problem just to recreate the graphs
> from the data? If someone can point me towards it I'll even do it
> myself in Excel or GNUPlot or something.
>
> Tyler
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>
>From: David Vizcarra <david.vizcarra(a)gmail.com>
>
>Jayg points out that the solution is trying to get outside opinions.
>However, his concept of "outside opinions" was those who he usually
>sides with and he knows agree with him. Otherwise
>the[[User:SlimVirginjayjgJpgordon]] would never have existed.
I didn't get any outside opinions at all, and your main opposition was
User:Goodoldpolonius2. And now, I'll do my utmost to control my natural
tendency to feed... If you have issues take them to the talk: page, and off
this list.
Jay.