WikiEN-l January 2005

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

111 participants
149 discussions

Proposal for a new project - Wikibuilder
by Christiaan Briggs 18 Jan '05

18 Jan '05

Wikibuilder - a knowledge base covering the design and construction of the built environment, in its entirety, in all languages. Project proposal page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikibuilder See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_new_projects == Basic idea == To create a knowledge base covering the design and construction of the built environment, in its entirety, in all languages. == Scope == Much, if not most, of the information could be presented as text (and could start off as just that), but text presents profound and obvious limits for describing the built environment, so much of the information would be pictorial. With the drawing expertise of designers and draughtspeople around the world who are intimate with CAD (computer aided draughting) there should be no shortage of people to get the ball rolling. There are currently efforts going on in the graphics and architecture industries to standardise pictorial file formats (see links below) and the main topic of initial discussion on Wikibuilder may well revolve around the kind of file formats to use for presenting and distributing sketch, 2D, 3D and other kinds of pictorial information. Carrying on from this might be discussion on graphical styles and style standardisation. There are a few open-content repository-type websites around for sharing building details, et cetera, but most of them are woeful and narrowly focused on CAD technicians looking for details to use at work. There're a myriad of websites dotted around the internet offering information on design but this is extremely fragmented. == Why? == Ever since we as a species started manipulating our environment we have built a vast knowledge of designing and constructing the built environment. This knowledge belongs to everyone, but much of it is is locked away in people's heads with no easy way to share such information except for books (usually expensive ones) and apprenticeship. A wiki focused on the built environment could help unlock this knowledge and make it accessible to vast numbers of people (builders, designers, inventors, diy'ers, knowledge lovers) who could put it to use and continue to build on it in a open way. A wiki could also help the push for open standards in the presentation of pictorial information via the internet. Kind regards, Christiaan

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Database lock.
by Jeff Cook 18 Jan '05

18 Jan '05

The database is locked again. The time is 9:54 P.M. CST (GMT -6). This is fine, but database locks give me jitters because of recent talk about locking for up to twenty-four hours. This would not be a favorable circumstance and I am worried about it. Are we going to have some warning before that big lockdown takes place? I think we should. :) -- Jeff "cookiecaper" Cook http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cookiecaper :)

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Re: How Wikipedia behaves under heavy load
by Daniel P.B.Smith 17 Jan '05

17 Jan '05

My personal observations/superstitions, which are NOT based on any technical insight. My mental model is that different Wikipedia operations require different capabilities, and perhaps in some cases different servers, and therefore degrade differently on heavy load. a) For some reason, reloading a page after saving an edit is one of the LEAST reliable operations and quickly degrades under load. The failure can take three different forms. The most common is that the browser times out. Lately, a very common one has been an error message saying the database is not available. A third form is that the supposedly edited page was reloaded, but shows the original text rather than the edited text. In ALL THREE cases, there's much better than a 50% chance that the edit actually took place. In ALL THREE cases, the most sensible thing to do is save the edited Wiki-marked-up text of the whole article somewhere locally, wait about five minutes, then try to view the page and see whether the edit took. b) A very common symptom under heavy load is that actions "take," but do not become "visible" for many minutes. For example, when preferences change spontaneously (an infuriating thing which hits me about every two weeks) and I change them back, my changes USUALLY take effect--but do not become visible for many minutes afterwards. Until I discovered this, I was utterly baffled because I would keep trying various things to "fix" the problem, every possible combination of clearing caches I could think of and when the changes took several minutes later I had tried several other things and naturally assumed that it was the last thing I'd tried, rather than the first. c) For reasons that baffle me, the "Go" button creates some kind of search string and does some kind of search. Under heavy load, all search operations degrade. This means that manually typing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar is much more reliable in retrieving the Foobar article than typing "Foobar" into the search box and pressing "Go." When things are slow, I usually copy the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ text out of the address box for handy pasting in later. d) I am trying to learn to welcome the slowdowns as nature's way of reminding me that I'm spending way too much time on Wikipedia. Of course, the most infuriating situations are the ones when I MEAN to say "this article should definitely not be," press SAVE, see that I accidentally typed "this article should definitely be", press EDIT, fix it, and get a database error. In these situations, I console myself with the thought that nobody really cares that much about my opinion. -- Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith(a)verizon.net "Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print! Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/

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Happy Wikipedia Day!
by Brion Vibber 17 Jan '05

17 Jan '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Wikipedia went live four years ago today, on January 15, 2001. Amazingly, this crazy project we've gotten ourselves into is still on the web, not _completely_ filled with Pokémon stubs and crackpot rants, and even remains free of advertisements, supported by donations and a lot of hard work. Presented for your pleasure: http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/ This is a dump of the English Wikipedia page database from December 20, 2001 -- the oldest complete copy I was able to find. It's actually running on the current MediaWiki software, so as a conversion necessity some pages have been altered to make links work correctly. (Due to limitations in the original conversion script, this version may actually contain some data which is missing or corrupted in the main database history on en.wikipedia.org.) You can find even older, though more fragmentary, bits of Ancient Wikipedia using the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20010331173908/http://www.wikipedia.com/ Happy Editing, everybody! - -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (Darwin) iD8DBQFB6PuYwRnhpk1wk44RAi1vAJ4+lRdmsWBKEDMXu5Hcc50BPyaMbwCgnbxr k3/K/SMPMBai/j+fJfi5fOA= =j7rD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Database locked
by Rick 17 Jan '05

17 Jan '05

Why is the database locked, and for how long? Where was it announced that this would take place? Why doesn't the message tell us when it will be back in usable form? RickK --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!

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3RR: No sympathy for those hit by it
by Daniel P.B.Smith 16 Jan '05

16 Jan '05

> Robert Brookes (the_robert_brookes(a)yahoo.com) [050115 20:22]: > >> I thought that the beauty of the 3RR rule was its "simplicity" in >> that when a breach is committed there is no doubt? No sooner had the >> ink dried on that policy update that such a breach could lead to a 24 >> hour block than some of the more "imaginative" sysops were proposing >> to "interpret" the intention of a specific editor and demanding the >> power to block at will based on their personal interpretation. >> There is a need to indeed keep it simple or severely restrict who may >> block through their personal powers for omnipotent interpretation of >> what another person is thinking. > > I fear admin consensus appears to be against you on this one, that you > do not in fact have some sort of ironclad right to four reverts in 24h > 1m, > and that admins will in fact apply the "is this person taking the > piss?" > test. > > Wikipedia is not primarily an experiment in Internet democracy. It's a > project to write an encyclopedia. CriminENTles! I have no sympathy at all for anyone who gets all huffy and legalistic about enforcement of the 3RR rule. Just limit yourself to what you believe to be TWO reverts within twenty-four hours and you'll never have any trouble. Whatever it is you think you're trying to do, if two reverts didn't work a third revert isn't going to, either. If you sit over Wikipedia with a hand-tally and a stopwatch and a world time zone chart trying to score as many reverts as possible, in hopes of increasing the duty cycle with which some vibrating article is supporting your POV, and you get blocked, the appropriate steps to take are: 1) make sure nobody but close friends are within earshot; 2) holler a cuss word at primal scream intensity; 3) count to ten to let the anger subside; 4) complain that life is not fair; 5) lick your wounds; 6) take a twenty-four vacation from Wikipedia. Visit Slashdot, or USENET, maybe even meatspace. I'd say "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime," but violating the 3RR isn't a crime. And the penalty isn't even a parking ticket. It's more like going through a "ten items or less" checkout line with fifteen items, in Cambridge, Mass, and having someone behind you say "Are you an MIT student who can't read or a Harvard student who can't count?" -- Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith(a)verizon.net "Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print! Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/

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Wikimedia Quarto
by Anthere 16 Jan '05

16 Jan '05

Since Wikipedia has been dead for at least 15 minutes now... I use the opportunity (I need to satisfy my wikipediholism) to remind you of Wikimedia Quarto, our quartely (well, as much as availability allow in truth, as well as mood...) publication, which tries to : * report on the Foundation activity. Read more on our last grants. Did you know we just got 40000 dollars to help the projects ? * keep you informed on new projects and generally on projects evolution aside from the english wikipedia. Do you know in how many languages Wikinews is currently developped ? Do you know how to say "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" in Italian ? * keep you updated with last trimester technical stuff. Did you know that we had now three servers in Paris to help the Florida cluster ? * keep you informed on past meetings and future meetings. Do you know the name of the great organiser of last netherlands meetup ? (Tip : he is bald). Have you thought of organising a meeting yourself ? Do you plan to come to Wikimania ? * update you on local chapters existence and activity. Quizz : does the french chapter exist or does not exist ? Which languages are trying to set up a chapter ? * keep you informed with the media opinion on what wikipedia is... Do you know which one refers to Jimbo as the king of England ? Anyway, plenty of great stuff, now completed in english (but for a board letter which I had the insuffurably crazy idea to write in french and which I lack courage to translate for now, you are welcome to help). You are welcome to read this letter, entirely, or only the parts you feel like reading, AND to correct mistakes, typos, anything you feel need improvement in style. We need proofreaders :-) Many people participated to that letter, and many are not english speaking, so it *might* be that some of you feel like correcting the language. Please do so, but please DO NOT add "sic" behind poorly spelled words, as this is a reason for blocking people on meta. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WQ/2 Thanks Anthere PS : if you have helped write the letter and are not mentionned in the writers, please add your name without shyness, or complain to me in private so that I can do it :-)

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Note to Anthere
by James Rosenzweig 16 Jan '05

16 Jan '05

Anthere, I see that you are distressed by the recent exchanges here over the Cassini-Huygens issue. I feel I should write to tell you how I'm seeing the dispute. I can say that, as an American, I feel no particular attachment to Cassini -- I am sure all the editors who have responded also did not even consider that the way Cassini-Huygens was reported here could be seen as pro- or anti-American. Because of this, it feels odd to me (and perhaps others) that someone would see our coverage and a) assume that pro-American bias created the current article situation, and b)consider the matter serious enough to raise on the mailing list. I am not saying that you should not have done so. But it did seem odd to me that the issue was of that level of significance, especially since your comments lead me to believe that the content of the articles themselves was not partisan -- it was merely the naming of articles that gave the appearance of bias. I am happy to agree to rearranging article titles in whatever way is most respectful of the ESA -- I feel confident that the other editors responding to you also have nothing but respect for the ESA's accomplishments. I would say, though, that the responses I saw to you were not aimed at diminishing European accomplishments in any way. What I saw looked to me (again, this is only my perspective) like good editors who, like me, had never considered the issue of bias in this area. These editors replied with an explanation of why they saw the current issue as reasonable -- I think it is because "bias" is such a harsh word these days (it suggests that we have consciously and intentionally pushed America to the front) that these editors wanted to make clear that the current article situation had been created for reasons of space and organization, not because of who made and/or launched what. Anthere, I am sorry you have become upset. Stan did say some things harshly to you, and I hope he will apologize. But I do understand in a small way how Stan felt -- it remains confusing to me that this issue was major enough to take directly to the mailing list. Matters of article naming are normally handled on talk pages, and I still don't fully understand why this should have been different. I recognize that, as an American, I may be less aware of European concerns, but as I said above, I am completely confident that this situation arose entirely innocently. No slight was intended -- after all, if I saw that the French Wikipedia had redirected everything about Cassini to a Huygens article, I would just assume it was for organizational convenience, or because of common usage in French, or perhaps simply because well-meaning French editors didn't consider the American perspective. I might leave a note on the talk page, but I wouldn't write to a fr.wikipedia mailing list accusing them of bias. And whether or not you intended that tone, Anthere (and I don't believe you did intend it), I do have to tell you that I felt you were accusing us of intentionally biasing the Wikipedia against European space efforts. And I have to say, I find that difficult to handle -- rather than asking why the situation arose, or merely pointing out that it would be better to name the articles in a different way, the word "bias" appeared from the very beginning. It made us defensive. I like you, Anthere, and we've always gotten along well. I'm confident we will continue to do so indefinitely. I'm not writing this to attack you or to make you feel unappreciated -- you have given more to Wikipedia than I ever will. Your suggestions about Cassini-Huygens should certainly be taken. But I feel that, as a colleague (and perhaps even a friend?), I need to say that your initial email on this issue came across as angry, and I think it should not have been. I find errors and holes in our coverage every day. I could, if I wanted, see in some of these errors a bias in Wikipedia -- a bias against Christians (of whom I am one) or homeschoolers (of whom I am one) or Swedish-Americans (of whom I am one). And perhaps there are such biases. But it is more productive for me, I think, to talk openly with people, to start dialogue to educate others, to work quietly on my own to make change happen, and to assume good faith as much as I can. If I claim bias, I must wait until I have established good communication with those who may feel I am accusing them of intentionally doing such things. You are free, of course, to do as you like. Perhaps the situation is different for you. But I would ask you (nicely, I do hope) to consider my thoughts on the issue. My best wishes to you, as always, James Rosenzweig en:User:Jwrosenzweig __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com

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External links and self-linking to my site
by NSK 16 Jan '05

16 Jan '05

Hello. Please check http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homo_floresiensis&diff=0&oldid=93… It is about the removal of an external link to my site that I first inserted in October. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homo_floresiensis&diff=6952756&ol… The link is this: http://portal.wikinerds.org/node/103 I insert only links that I truly believe are informational and I have no interest to insert any bogus links. I truly believe that my report is informational. Please explain why it was considered inappropriate and give me a link to any external links policies that you may have. The link was removed by Adam Bishop. He contacted me through e-mail and I answered promptly. I explained my concern that my link was removed because it was pointing to a "competing" wikisite. He said that the link was spam because it was pointing to my site. Other links to my site removed by Adam Bishop have been featured on Slashdot.org - check: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/28/1825218 and http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/19/174240 - Links to wikinerds.org that were featured on these Slashdot stories were added (and subsequently removed by Adam Bishop) in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation_Europe - I have since inserted links to the Slashdot stories because I believe that they are informational. All that happened the same day I decided to start contributing some of my articles on Wikipedia (and thus relicensing some CC content under GFDL for your use) - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zsync I don't agree that I should not be allowed to post links to my site just because it is mine. This isn't spam. I post this message on the mailing list because I want a clear answer on whether my link about Homo Floresiensis was spam or not. If the other admins agree with me that self-linking is not spam then I would like Adam Bishop to reconsider and post a public apology on his userpage stating that my link on Homo Floresiensis was not spam. If you decide that the link was not informational, I have no problem with this. But I truly believe that describing it as spam was unfair. Adam Bishop stated in the History log of the Homo Floresiensis article: "01:45, 12 Jan 2005 Adam Bishop (removing spam)" I also promise to not post any other external links without asking on the mailing list or the village pump first. -- NSK Come to see the new wikiprojects at http://portal.wikinerds.org

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Time Zone using 24-hour clock instead of number of hours
by Rowan Collins 15 Jan '05

15 Jan '05

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:28:58 +0530, Rohan Sharma <gates.plusplus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I didn't try that with the colon :). Well, I saw the colon was there already, so assumed I could put something after it. Perhaps the message should be changed to "...number of hours and minutes..." to make this clear to those less prone to experimentation than myself? -- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP]

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WikiEN-l January 2005