WikiEN-l February 2004

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

106 participants
441 discussions

RE: [WikiEN-l] "Go" back to WikiBooks vs. Wikipedia discussion
by Poor, Edmund W 26 Feb '04

26 Feb '04

LOL! You want to step outside and repeat that remark? You know, a boxing ring is square, too!! ;-) Ed -----Original Message----- From: Sean Barrett Not recipes, but the fact that Go is an unacceptable topic for Wikipedia: the very raison d'etre of the off-square-ness of the grid is the player POV. NPOV requires a square grid.

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"Go" back to WikiBooks vs. Wikipedia discussion
by Poor, Edmund W 26 Feb '04

26 Feb '04

Nobody mentioned yet that there are 3 different size go boards in common use: 9 x 9 13 x 13 19 x 19 As mentioned, of course, the boards are slightly off-square, to offset the effect of looking at the board from an angle. And most importantly the board is not conceived as being divided into squares but hashed with lines: markers are placed at the intersections of these lines. Territory consists not of "area" but of the count of /points/ cordoned off by the markers of one color. ...not sure how this relates to recipes. We do have an article on go, which contains tips on tactics and strategy. I sure hope the whole thing isn't deleted and/or moved to WikiBooks! Ed Poor

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Irismeister
by Poor, Edmund W 26 Feb '04

26 Feb '04

I will be happy to present evidence that Irismeister has been called a quack and a nutcase. Irismeister is a quack and a nutcase. There! (Ah, that felt good to say!) /ducks and covers/ Ed

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Re: I think I can make it now, the pain is gone (was: I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it any more)
by Matthew Woodcraft 26 Feb '04

26 Feb '04

Poor, Edmund W wrote: >Remember when it took a long, soul-seaching vote on this mailing list >for each new sysop? Votes? I don't, no. When was that? What I remember is "I will give it out more or less willy-nilly to anyone who I know" and "Anyone else who wants sysop, just email me" -M-

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Irismeister
by Arno M 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Isn't this guy now at the arbitration committee stage? It sounds like this matter needs a moveon. (BTW , my first entry!) -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:39:09 From: "KNOTT, T" <tknott(a)qcl.org.uk> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org> Cc: >Can I ask for people to help me out a bit here. Irismeister is following me around trying to provoke me. My tactic of doing my best to ignore him seems to be winding him up as he made a couple of absurd edits yesterday - he removed "if swallowed ....... seek medical help" from ammonium chloride on the ground that seeking medical help from unqualified persons wastes time and is therefore dangerous. This _may_ be because english is not his first language and he doesn't realize the phrase means - go to a doctor or ring the emergency services, but I think it's just that he's baiting me. > >Another example is on the reflexology page where he deleted a quote that I put in calling it obscene. This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard so I reverted. > >My problem is, I am now at the stage where I simply revert all the deletions he makes of my work without even considering his arguments. It may well be that I make a bad edit, irismeister reverts it and I revert it back again simply because it was him. I am concerned that other editors may be reluctant to argue with me for fear of agree with him, or even for fear of getting involved in the war. So I'm asking for you lot's help. If you see me revert irismeister and you think that even though he is a jerk, his edit had some merit please say so on the talk page. I can't bring myself to argue my case with him anymore, but I don't want the quality of wikipedia to suffer as a result. > >Cheers. > >Theresa > > >_______________________________________________ >WikiEN-l mailing list >WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.as…

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RE: [WikiEN-l] HOWTOs/Recipes/Instructions and otherimperative content
by Poor, Edmund W 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

I think you mean, in Western chess's main variant, a chessboard has 64 squares. There's also fairy chess, 3-d chess, etc. And in Korean/Chinese chess, the pieces aren't placed on squares at all! Rather, on the points where the lines of a 10 x 9 grid intersect. Bonus question: How many squares on a Go board? Tricky Ol' Uncle Ed

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Re: HOWTOs/Recipes/Instructions and other imperativecontent
by Daniel Mayer 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Cimon Avaro wrote: >(pardon my french) The original french encyclopaedists >made a point of detailing as many crafts and industries >as possible, down to the most minute detail, with graphic >illustrations capable of practical implementation. This is >what made them notable in their own time as spreading >the industrial revolution. And the ones in the English tradition have tended to shy away from instructional material and language. Again, different cultures will have different ideas about how to best organize information. The instructional/informative and textbook/encyclopedia distinction seems to me to be rather prevalent in the English language tradition. But different cultures may have different ways of doing things. However, much of the current situation can be fixed by converting the recipes into encyclopedia articles (informative voice) and moving the rest to Wikibooks. Both projects would benefit from this. I do not favor deletion. -- mav __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

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HOWTOs/Recipes/Instructions and other imperativecontent
by Daniel Mayer 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Delirium wrote: >I just really don't like the condescending tone of "this >is how you do this". Just *describe* things. We are >in no position to give instructions, because we just >report on what other people say; we don't do original >research and come up with our own tutorials, because >that's well outside our mission (which explicitly states >"no original research"). Exactly. The goal of Wikibooks is to instruct, the goal of Wikipedia, at least the English Wikipedia, is to inform. We can still inform readers how some people instruct others, but we should *not* be the ones doing the instructing. To do so would be a violation of our NPOV policy as practiced in the context of Wikipedia. This was one of the main reasons why I proposed a different neutrality policy for Wikibooks. The compromise was to use NPOV but to limit the focus of textbooks so that they are still useful in instruction. But different cultures will have different ideas about what is appropriate to include in an encyclopedia or textbook, so I don't pretend to extend this concept to the other language Wikipedias (where instructional material may very well be appropriate to have in an encyclopedia for their culture). Wikipedia is already a run-away success. Let's not impoverish Wikibooks by duplicating that project's content and mission. -- mav __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Irismeister
by KNOTT, T 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Jimbo only referred it yesterday. We are still adding evidence at the moment. The arbitration committee will have to decide if to accept it, then they need a week to investigate. IMO it is more important to follow good procedure than to get things done quickly. Don't worry, although he is driving me nuts I can take it for as long as is necessary. His NPOV edits are reverted by lot's of people so wikipedia will not suffer. Theresa -----Original Message----- From: Arno M [mailto:redgum46@lycos.com] Sent: 25 February 2004 06:38 To: English Wikipedia Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Irismeister Isn't this guy now at the arbitration committee stage? It sounds like this matter needs a moveon. (BTW , my first entry!) -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:39:09 From: "KNOTT, T" <tknott(a)qcl.org.uk> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org> Cc: >Can I ask for people to help me out a bit here. Irismeister is following me around trying to provoke me. My tactic of doing my best to ignore him seems to be winding him up as he made a couple of absurd edits yesterday - he removed "if swallowed ....... seek medical help" from ammonium chloride on the ground that seeking medical help from unqualified persons wastes time and is therefore dangerous. This _may_ be because english is not his first language and he doesn't realize the phrase means - go to a doctor or ring the emergency services, but I think it's just that he's baiting me. > >Another example is on the reflexology page where he deleted a quote that I put in calling it obscene. This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard so I reverted. > >My problem is, I am now at the stage where I simply revert all the deletions he makes of my work without even considering his arguments. It may well be that I make a bad edit, irismeister reverts it and I revert it back again simply because it was him. I am concerned that other editors may be reluctant to argue with me for fear of agree with him, or even for fear of getting involved in the war. So I'm asking for you lot's help. If you see me revert irismeister and you think that even though he is a jerk, his edit had some merit please say so on the talk page. I can't bring myself to argue my case with him anymore, but I don't want the quality of wikipedia to suffer as a result. > >Cheers. > >Theresa > > >_______________________________________________ >WikiEN-l mailing list >WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.as… _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Re: recipes
by Daniel Mayer 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

Ray Saintonge wrote: >The only ones that are proscribing the work of others are >those wanting to delete these recipes. Deleting is bad. Moving is better. But the best thing to do would be to create an actual encyclopedia article on the subject and move the "two cups flour, one dash of salt..." stuff to Wikibooks. But informing readers about the different ways a particular dish is created can be very encyclopedic if done correctly (others have gone over how to do that better than I can). --mav __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

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WikiEN-l February 2004