RickK writes:
>When people imply that I'm incompetent and shouldn't
>be allowed to perform certain tasks that are part of
>the territory of being a sysop, I don't think a
>"thank you" is in order.
>
>Nor will I thank YOU for this uncalled-for attempt at
>teaching me etiquette.
I don't think she implied that at all, though you may
well have inferred it. At any rate, regardless of
motive, is it or is not useful to be able to undelete
something once one discovers--as you have--that one
should not have deleted it? Or is it more useful to
become defensive and refuse to listen?
No thanks necessary,
kq
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:13:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick <giantsrick13(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: WikiEN-l Penis
To: Discussion list for English-language Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<20030831211340.89274.qmail(a)web80604.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I'm going to try very hard not to take that as an
>attack, but it's very hard to do.
Hu ? Sorry you didnot understand me. I must confess I
can't understand either what you wrote below :-(((
>In other words, unless you're some wizard, it's
>impossible to undelete.
What do you mean it is impossible to undelete ?
I am a wizard myself quite often (though from time to
time, I just can't succeed to have the magic work,
hence the "good luck").
Anything a sysop can do, a sysop can undo.
If you block an ip, another sysop can unblock it
If you protect a page, another sysop can unprotect it
If you delete a page, another sysop can undelete it
Er...an exception, if you delete an image, then that
is lost forever. This is bad.
A couple of people are HIGH wizards, such as Brion.
But we are just regular wizard
So, if you make a mistake and delete a page, you have
the ability to restore it. You may go to the special
page, list the deleted pages and find it (I still do
that sometimes on the fr wiki).
Or you may use the magic undelete link that is listed
in the page I provided you. You use the link, you
replace the end of it by "penis", you enter
And sometimes, it works :-)
>Hack a bookmark? Use Mozilla?
I am no computer wizard
I know no such things
>Therefore the majority of sysops are unable to
>undelete, and therefore
>should not be allowed to delete.
>Is that what you're saying?
No. When were you made sysop ?
All sysops are able to undelete
Perhaps a sysop should be fully aware of his powers
before using them.
Perhaps some stuff needs to be better explained to new
sysops.
>RickK
Sorry you misunderstood. Did you try to undelete
yourself ? Why not creating a junk article and then
deleting it, and restoring it ?
Anthere <anthere6(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Rick giantsrick13 at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 31 14:02:43 UTC 2003
I did the delete. I thought the original page's
history stayed with the original name. Sorry. I
don't know how to do an undelete or I'd do it. But
then, how do you rename it so that it keeps the
history? And it was Michael who did the move to begin
with. He's decided to visit us again today.
RickK
Perhaps it would be better than anyone practicing
deletion, knew how to practice undeletion as well :-)
check here and good luck
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3AVotes_for_undeletion
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This message from Politics: The Bully Pulpit on DelphiForums.com was forwarded to
you by 2MINUTESHATE.
You can view it in the context of the entire discussion by going to:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/bully/messages/?msg=25069.115
To view 2MINUTESHATE's Profile, visit
http://www.delphiforums.com/dir-app/showprofile.asp?uname=2MINUTESHATE
======== 2MINUTESHATE says to you ========
I take part in this forum on delphi. I wanted to make someone at Wiki aware of some of these offenders who seem to think it is somehow cute or funny to deface someone else's work.
Thank You and feel free to contact me if you require and further help stopping the abuse.
jdepape(a)cfl.rr.com
=======================Forwarded Message=======================
Forum: the Politics: The Bully Pulpit Forum
Subject: My Wikipedia Rant
From: Sinfully Delicious (MAGNOS1)
To: John (CHICAGOJOHN)
DateTime: 8/30/2003 10:17:57 AM
What a great website! I've amended an entry for the Roman emperor Trajan:
Trajan
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Marcus Ulpius Nerva Traianus (53 - 117), Roman Emperor (98 - 117) was the second of the so-called "five good emperors" of the Roman Empire and one of its greatest ever. Under his rule, the empire reached its greatest territorial extent. He also started the 'Trajan' brand of ribbed condoms.
=================================================
DelphiForums.com: Home to the Web's most vibrant
online communities. Explore more than 100,000 Forums
or create your own at http://www.delphiforums.com
=================================================
Michael's behaviour is gone beyond annoying at this stage. We have talked
and talked about contacting AOL. Has that been done?
If not, can I please as Jim or one of the developers /as a matter or
urgency/ to do it. The little turd (sorry if the terminology is unusual but
I can think of no less offensive term to call him and a lot stronger) has
been moving around various users' pages, invariably the pages of Hephaestos
and occasionally others, including Jim O'Regan's now.
Among his targeting of Hep's pages have been :
* (cur) (last) . . M 03:50, 29 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . 03:50, 29 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos' Account
* (cur) (last) . . M 03:50, 29 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Delirium)
* (cur) (last) . . M 03:49, 29 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos' Account (So, you
were born on St. Christopher's day 1953, huh?)
* (cur) (last) . . M 03:40, 29 Aug 2003 . . Delirium (Reverted to last
edit by Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . 03:36, 29 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos' Account
* (cur) (last) . . 03:35, 29 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos' Account
* (cur) (last) . . 16:58, 28 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos (just a note.
please?)
* (cur) (last) . . M 16:56, 28 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos
* (cur) (last) . . M 00:59, 28 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . 00:59, 28 Aug 2003 . . Bastard (Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . M 00:53, 28 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . 00:53, 28 Aug 2003 . . Mr. Bush
* (cur) (last) . . 05:23, 27 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos
* (cur) (last) . . 22:40, 4 Aug 2003 . . Evercat (rv)
* (cur) (last) . . 22:38, 4 Aug 2003 . . 67.121.169.17 (Michael)
* (cur) (last) . . M 10:21, 4 Aug 2003 . . Cyp (Reverted to last edit by
Notheruser)
* (cur) (last) . . 10:20, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.212
* (cur) (last) . . M 08:04, 4 Aug 2003 . . Notheruser (Reverted to last
edit by Notheruser)
* (cur) (last) . . 08:04, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.42
* (cur) (last) . . M 07:57, 4 Aug 2003 . . Notheruser (Reverted to last
edit by Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . 07:56, 4 Aug 2003 . . Homohomo
* (cur) (last) . . 07:56, 4 Aug 2003 . . Homohomo
* (cur) (last) . . M 07:54, 4 Aug 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Notheruser)
* (cur) (last) . . 07:54, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.220
* (cur) (last) . . M 07:52, 4 Aug 2003 . . Notheruser (Reverted to last
edit by Notheruser)
* (cur) (last) . . 07:52, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.220
* (cur) (last) . . 07:51, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.220
* (cur) (last) . . M 07:50, 4 Aug 2003 . . Notheruser (Reverted to last
edit by 202.147.80.220)
* (cur) (last) . . 07:49, 4 Aug 2003 . . Homohomo
* (cur) (last) . . 07:46, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.220
* (cur) (last) . . 07:45, 4 Aug 2003 . . 202.147.80.220
* (cur) (last) . . M 19:31, 31 Jul 2003 . . Hephaestos
* (cur) (last) . . M 05:35, 30 Jul 2003 . . Hephaestos
* (cur) (last) . . M 05:30, 30 Jul 2003 . . Hephaestos (can you not
-read-? Do not protect this page without INFORMING me. Thank you.)
* (cur) (last) . . 04:11, 30 Jul 2003 . . Evercat (restoring)
* (cur) (last) . . 04:07, 30 Jul 2003 . . 67.121.169.17 (Michael) (moved
to "User:Hephaestos")
* (cur) (last) . . 04:06, 30 Jul 2003 . . 67.121.169.17 (Michael)
* (cur) (last) . . 04:05, 30 Jul 2003 . . 67.121.169.17 (Michael)
* (cur) (last) . . 04:04, 30 Jul 2003 . . 67.121.169.17 (Michael)
* (cur) (last) . . 04:02, 30 Jul 2003 . . Notheruser (moved to
"User:Hephaestos")
* (cur) (last) . . M 18:46, 27 Jul 2003 . . Koyaanis Qatsi
* (cur) (last) . . 18:34, 27 Jul 2003 . . 67.121.191.130
* (cur) (last) . . M 10:17, 21 Jul 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Maveric149)
* (cur) (last) . . 10:16, 21 Jul 2003 . . 66.235.39.157
* (cur) (last) . . M 03:17, 20 Jul 2003 . . Maveric149
* (cur) (last) . . M 03:16, 20 Jul 2003 . . Hephaestos (I could almost
agree with that. My mom might take offense... :) )
* (cur) (last) . . M 02:37, 20 Jul 2003 . . Hephaestos (Reverted to last
edit by Notheruser)
* (cur) (last) . . 02:37, 20 Jul 2003 . . The Winner
* (cur) (last) . . M 23:07, 18 Jul 2003 . . Notheruser (Reverted to last
edit by Hephaestos)
* (cur) (last) . . 23:06, 18 Jul 2003 . . 67.121.168.151
Michael's pseudonyms
* User:Michael Contributions
* User:Michael (Unbanned User) Contributions
* User:Michael/Crass Contributions
* User:Michael/NOFX Contributions
* User:Michael/Trapeze Contributions
* User:No-Fx Contributions
* User:Weezer Contributions
* User:Weezer/NOFX Contributions
* User:Eddie Contributions
* User:Fuck Contributions
* User:UPSyNDROME Contributions
* User:George Washington Contributions
* User:NOFX Contributions
* User:Michaelese Contributions
* User:Crass/Tapeze Contributions
* User:My Green Dice Contributions
* User:Punk Contributions
* User:Twister Contributions
* User:Maynard James Keenan Contributions
* User:Michaelism Contributions
* User:Unbanned User Contributions
* User:Jar Jar Binks Contributions
* User:Steve Ignorant Contributions
* User:George Washington (president) Contributions
* User:Michael (Banned User) Contributions
* User:Michael still wins! But Hephaestos still loses! Contributions
* User:152.163.xx.xx Contributions
* User:205.188.xx.xx Contributions
* User:The Winner Contributions
* User:Xxx.xxx.xx.xx Contributions
* User:Michael's IP Contributions
* User:67.121.169.17 (Michael) Contributions
* User:Banned User Contributions
* User:Michael-ish Contributions
* User:Banned User Addition Contributions
* User:24.130.213.242 (Michael) Contributions
* User:MutantY Contributions
* User:Michael J.J. Contributions
* User:Michael vs. Hephaestos Contributions
* User:Capable as Michael Contributions
* User:Michael's Justice League Contributions
* User:Mr. Bush Contributions
* User:Bastard (Hephaestos) Contributions
* User:The Bastard (Hephaestos) Contributions
* User:The Bastard (Michael) Contributions
* User:Mr. Banned User Contributions
* User:64.12.9x.xx Contributions
* User:Hephaestos' Account Contributions
Whereas his early contributions focused on music pages, recently most of his
targets are users' pages.
I have had to protect Hep's pages on occasions when he isn't around and
Michael is running riot over them. We need action to deal with this nutter
as he obviously has no intention of going away. I don't think any other
troll has delberately caused as much damage. At least DW/Black
widow/JoeCanuck etc and Adam/Lir/Vera/Susan/Dietary Fiber/PP (who is back
again BTW) did make positive as well as negative contributions, but Michael
has done nothing but vandalism.
So please, someone with authority, contact AOL and see can anything be done
through it about Michael.
In the meantime, sysops cannot ban 'named' users. That is an understandable
and safe policy but in an emergency situation, as this is, I would like to
suggest to developers that Hepaestos be given the power to do so, in the
case of Michael. Hep has shown incredible restraint and solid judgment in
dealing with the nutter. I think he can safely be trusted to use such a
power responsibly. I will be reducing my commitment to wiki from next week
due to work commitments. Mav is on less often. Jim will be away in Ibiza for
a couple of weeks. Others used to dealing with Michael won't be around and
developers aren't always around when Michael is, so I think it is reasonable
to suggest that the target of most of his vandalism be given emergency
powers to deal with Michael, pending a possible more permanent solution.
Alternatively remove the power to move user pages, only temporarily, perhaps
restricting the power to move a page to sysops, who would do moves requested
by bona fide users who want to move their page. Other alternatives might be
to allow only the user to move his or her page. Or place a lock on the
moving of those user pages Michael continually targets, specifically Hep's.
JT
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Jimmy Wales wrote on wikipedia-l:
> I'm declaring another cease fire -- the last one worked out pretty
> well, and what the hell.
> LOTS of people have written me asking me to ban EofT. The reasons
> should be readily apparent. No one has written me asking me to ban
> RK, but LOTS of people are of the opinion that he needs to be a LOT
> nicer to people, all around.
> What I'd like to do is call a ceasefire on this one for a week or so,
> starting now. (I'll be posting this on Wikipedia as well, on my user
> page, on RK's user page, and on EofT's user page.)
I'm copying this to wikien-l because that's where it belongs.
Regards,
Erik
A very sick man has now created a dozen Wikipedia pages
dedicated to abusing me. (Yes, I know I previously said
that EntmootsOfTrolls had created six, but his latest list
is much longer. He is still creating more, even though that
is hard to believe.)
Yet your communal response? Anthere starts attacking me,
and James Duffy starts ranting about "the boy who cried
wolf", and denies that serious amounts of Jew baitiing
exists - in the midst of some of the most serious
anti-Semitic slander Wikipedia has seen.
Entmoots non-stop talk about Jews, Zionpedia, questining me
about hwo I follow Leviticus, claiming that I am not a Jew,
and whining about how Zionists control this place is a very
clear thing: This is anti-Semitic harassment. For someone
to look at this and deny it is a sign that they ar
stupid...or anti-Semitic themselves.
Would we allow similar statements about women, gays,
blacks, Hispanics, etc? Nope.
And right now Stevertigo slanders most Wikipedians as
"philo Semites"...and in response some people do nothing,
yet only respond that I am lying or imagining things when I
object to the blatant anti-Semitic Jew-baiting?
Huh? If that action on your part isn't Jew-baiting itself,
then nothing is.
Stevertigo and EntmootsOfTrolls are the ones making the
most outrageous attacks. However, they are only a few
people, out of thousands of Wikipedia. It is not them I am
worrying about. Rather, it is the rest of you self-who
don't see a problem with this that I am worried about.
If I wrote that your tolerance of writing about black
subjects makes you "nigger lovers", isn't that racist, and
grounds for an immediate ban? Sure. But when people like
Stvertigo and EntmootsOfTrolls write things exactly like
this about the Jews, you blame the victim, deny that
anti-Semitism exists, slander me, and then refuse to ban
trolls. That's either hypocritical (at best) or a tacit
admission that deep down inside you really don't have a
problem anti-Semitism.
And on a related topic, EntmootsOfTrolls has also created a
dozen Wikipedia article dedicated to harassment, has done
things that would get a dozen other users banned
immediately, but narly all of you are still protecting him.
Your tacit acceptance of harassment is shameful, and a
violation of everything this project stands for.
Please stop writing posts about how good and tolerant you
all are, and about how the only problem is that I "am
crying wolf". Coming from people who are blind to
anti-Semitism in a very blatant form, I just can't take
your words seriously at all.
Robert (RK)
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I am an AOL user. I am also a sysop and I have been contributing to Wikipedia
for well over a year. I have found myself blocked on several occasions
because of blocks against Michael. There is absolutely no justification for blocking
thousands of potential users like me just because we happen to use AOL. There
must be some other solution.
Danny
James Duffy starts ranting about "the boy who cried
>wolf", and denies that serious amounts of Jew baitiing
>exists - in the midst of some of the most serious
>anti-Semitic slander Wikipedia has seen.
>
RK, I made it absolutely clear in my message that I was not attacking you,
much less ranting. Furthermore I have unambiguously called for a ban of EoT.
Please stop misrepresenting people.
The point of the message was to say that, having accused vast numbers of
people of jew-baiting, as in the story of 'the boy who called wolf', you
undermine your credibility to such a degree that when it /really happens/,
people simply think /here he goes again/ and don't take your claims
seriously.
Most of what you called 'jew baiting' is really 'you bating', attacks on
you, not your religion, though, and I do understand this, you interpreted it
as an attack on your faith and culture. If it was genuine jew baiting, it
would also have been targeted against others of the jewish faith or
community. It was targeted solely against you, often in response to your
over-reaction to criticism. I have emailed you privately to urge you to be
restrained in your accusations, making the point that it does not help your
cause when you make extreme allegations against much of wiki. Now I am
saying it publicly. Sometimes you are your own worst enemy, your wild
allegations so undermining your credibility that when it genuinely happens,
people just think, in the words of Ronald Reagan (I never thought I'd end up
quoting /him/!) 'there you go again'.
Let me be blunt. I respect your contributions. I respect your sincerity. I
know you are a genuine and honourable contributor to wiki. But you do more
to undermine your case than anyone else on wiki. Please, please, please stop
it.
I think EoT's behaviour to you was outrageous. Creating all these 'attack'
pages was a gross abuse of wiki. No-one, repeat no-one, should be allowed to
do that to /any/ user on wiki. So again, I call for his banning. I also
appeal to you to show restraint. Please show the respect for others that
your /rightly/ expect them to show to you. EoT has already been banned as I
think ''142''. Don't create sympathy for him by your over-reaction. And
please stop attacking those who are trying to help you to deal with OTT
attacks. You make defending you /extremely/ difficult when you read into
genuine advice personalised attacks. I made it clear before, and I make it
clear again, I am trying to be constructive and to say that EoT's behaviour
is a gross abuse of wiki. Please stop attacking the dwindling number of
people willing to defend you against EoT's acts. And BTW it is dwindling
/not/ because people are anti-jewish, or agree with EoT's behaviour, but
because you interpret the /slightest/ criticism of you, however honest and
well meaning, in a grossly unfair manner.
Please /this/ time heed my advice.
JT
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>Stevertigo wrote
>I nominate Fred Bauder to the task/position of ISP
>contact guy, because hes a professional and
>straightforward guy, And his name is Fred -- a nombre
>which carries volumes of psychologically persuasive
>symbolism that I dont have to go into here.
>
I think Fred would be a good choice. We have had our disagreements but I do
have a high regard for Fred and he would be a competent choice. But it has
to be made clear, /in Fred's interest/, that he isn't some member acting but
that he is acting /for wikipedia/. Whomever we choose must have the
authority to act, and not be seen as just some activist expressing an
opinion. We must remember that wiki is a community of hundreds of activists,
thousands of participants. It isn't just some ordinary website but an
encyclopædia outpacing Encyclopædia Brittanica in usage on the web, a
serious and credible website, not just some minor website that can be
ignored as can so many of mediocre standard and idiocyncratic membership.
This is a serious website, involving people of great ability and commitment
that far exceeds most locations on the net. If Fred speaks for us, he must
be do so with the full power of wiki behind him; our credibility and
excellence. That must be unambiguously shown and stressed. This is a /real/
encyclopædia, not a discussion group and that /has to be stressed/ to
empower Fred.
JT
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>Jimbo wrote
>I would definitely say that starting gently with AOL is a good idea.
An even better idea is starting, gently or otherwise! :-) I think Michael's
latest game, adding users' names to the [[recent deaths]] page shows we have
to do /something/ asap. And we have to let AOL know that we are serious with
them. We will work with them if they are willing to do something. But if
they aren't willing, we aren't willing to let the issue drop. So they can
work with us, in a full spirit of co-operation to solve the problem. Or they
can face a response from us of a sort that would not be in their best
interests. They choose which route they want.
JT
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