WikiEN-l April 2003

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

63 participants
217 discussions

STATUS
by Daniel Mayer 12 Apr '03

12 Apr '03

FYI I'm off for a week-long vacation to Death Valley. So my silence does not mean I'm ignoring anybody. We can take care of the email server thing after I get back. Cheers! --mav

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Proposal for video format
by Eric Demolli 11 Apr '03

11 Apr '03

Is there a standard video format for Wikipedia ? If not I suggest Xvid (as efficient as Divx and GNU GPL) with Ogg/Vorbis sound any advice ?

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Re: audio formats (was re: video formats)
by koyaanis qatsi 11 Apr '03

11 Apr '03

Brion writes: > Audio is another matter; are there freely available > players for Windows, Unix, and MacOS that can play > files encoded as your describe? windows: winamp 3.0 comes with ogg support already; pre-3.0 will require an ogg plugin (which winamp's site pulled, probably because they want people using the new & inferior version. The codec is still available at other sites). mac: there are iTunes plugins for the .ogg codec; and vorbis has ported oggdrop also, so playing and encoding .oggs on a mac (os 9 and os X, at least) will not be a problem. kq __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com

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Re: audio formats (was re: video formats)
by koyaanis qatsi 11 Apr '03

11 Apr '03

Brion writes: > Can winamp and iTunes play video files (?AVI? > Quicktime? no details here...) encoded with > Xvid for video and vorbis for audio, as was being > suggested? [smacks forehead] Of course you knew there was .ogg support; it's a question of video on those platforms with .ogg support. I've derailed the conversation, sorry. That's what happens when trying to answer email between editing video and negotiating where to lunch. I'll go back to lurking. :-) kq __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com

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Should we do things Fred and Cunctator's way, or act like adults?
by Robert 11 Apr '03

11 Apr '03

I should point out that the Cunctator's remarks about the dispute in the Idolatry Talk page were dishonest and misleading. I was angered at Dietary Fiber for making certain remarks, especially the ones in which he/she attacked my religious beliefs, and made me out to be someone slandering all polytheists. (And I have never done this.) I was also bothered by Dietary Fiber's fake quotes (which my critics here are blatantly lying about) Yet Cunctator ignored those particular remarks, and implied that they didn't even exist. When Cunctator did make some brief quotes, he left the particular quotes in question out! A lie by omission is a lie nonetheless. Hey, maybe we should edit some Wikipedia articles today! We can forge a quote from Cunctator, questions his religious beliefs, and attack positions he does not have! We can also do the same thing to Fred Bauder! And then when they complain, we can insult them, and deny that these attacks against them even exist! Hurrah! How wonderfully fun it would be to join in with this type of trolling! Or we can cut the crap and learn to act like adults. Some of us are here to do some serious work on this encyclopedia project. RK __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Should we do things Fred and Cunctator's way, or act like adults?
by Poor, Edmund W 11 Apr '03

11 Apr '03

Robert, Either develop a "thicker skin" or just pay no attention to Cunc's remarks at all. Meanwhile, while describing the monotheistic religions' approach to idol worship, etc., I hope you have been reading my comments here on the mailing list, as well as at [[talk:idolatry]]. Apparently some proponents of polytheism feel their POV has been mischaracterized. So you and they may be arguing at cross purposes. One of the benefits of a truly neutral religious article is (or should be!) that all parties will agree that the article describes the religion in question, accurately. Perhaps we need to focus more on: * what various polytheists believe * whether anyone ever worshipped idols (or still does) * what the ancient Bible verses meant: "have no other gods", "do not make or worship idols" Just to change the subject slightly, I wonder whether modern Krishna Consciousness devotees would concede that they "worship idols"? I was invited to view the inner recesses of a Hare Krishna temple and shown what one young, enthusiastic devotee called "dolls" -- full-size mannequins which resembled pictures of various Hindu deities. The devotee's task was to wash and dress these "dolls", as he called them. And one more possible red herring. Members of the Unification Church bow down in front of a photograph of the "True Parents" (as we call Rev. & Mrs. Moon) in a weekly and monthly Pledge Service. Are we worshipping idols? (Don't worry: I won't fight with you on this -- ask Vicki, I'm very nice when it comes to interacting online with others who don't share my faith!) Ed Poor -----Original Message----- From: Robert [mailto:rkscience100@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:06 AM To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] Should we do things Fred and Cunctator's way, or act like adults? I should point out that the Cunctator's remarks about the dispute in the Idolatry Talk page were dishonest and misleading. I was angered at Dietary Fiber for making certain remarks, especially the ones in which he/she attacked my religious beliefs, and made me out to be someone slandering all polytheists. (And I have never done this.) I was also bothered by Dietary Fiber's fake quotes (which my critics here are blatantly lying about) Yet Cunctator ignored those particular remarks, and implied that they didn't even exist. When Cunctator did make some brief quotes, he left the particular quotes in question out! A lie by omission is a lie nonetheless. Hey, maybe we should edit some Wikipedia articles today! We can forge a quote from Cunctator, questions his religious beliefs, and attack positions he does not have! We can also do the same thing to Fred Bauder! And then when they complain, we can insult them, and deny that these attacks against them even exist! Hurrah! How wonderfully fun it would be to join in with this type of trolling! Or we can cut the crap and learn to act like adults. Some of us are here to do some serious work on this encyclopedia project. RK __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)wikipedia.org http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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In defense of non-monotheistic religions
by Poor, Edmund W 10 Apr '03

10 Apr '03

I can't believe I've devoted so much time to this. I guess Rev. Moon's desire -- to unite the world via, among other things, inter-religious understanding -- has me in its grip :-) I just finished reading talk archive #6 -- yes, their are FIVE previous talk archives on this topic! And I waded through the first half of the [[idolatry]] article. It really amounts to a defense of non-monotheistic religions, against the accusation of "idolatry" from the monotheistic religions. As such, the article really requires a thorough rewrite. The article is not describing what "idolatry" is, let alone distinguishing facets such as "idol worship" or "polytheism". It's just saying, in effect, "You guys condemn us, but you don't even know what you're talking about. So there!" I think RK has been awfully patient, although he does tend to blow up now and then. But the problem is not the personalities of the contributors, in this case. It's the focus of the whole article. Or, should I say the lack of focus. We need to identify just what it is, that the ancient verses condemned. We can report on the reasons various rabbis and priests have given over the centuries for this condemnation. We can even mention any relaxation of these prohibitions. Also, and most importantly, we need to distinguish clearly between: * what Jews and other monotheists condemn * what polytheists and the like say they are "really doing" Until we clarify these issues, the article will go nowhere because everyone is arguing at cross purposes. Ed Poor

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Re: [WikiEN-l] In defense of non-monotheistic religions
by Stephen C. Carlson 10 Apr '03

10 Apr '03

On 04/10/03 01:31 PM, "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor(a)abc.com>: >I just finished reading talk archive #6 -- yes, their are FIVE previous >talk archives on this topic! And I waded through the first half of the >[[idolatry]] article. > >It really amounts to a defense of non-monotheistic religions, against the >accusation of "idolatry" from the monotheistic religions. As such, the >article really requires a thorough rewrite. I can see how one could get that impression, particularly if one reads only the first half (which I have just reorganized by moving it to the end), but the article as a whole seems fairly well-balanced and representative of many points of views related in a neutral manner. There has been a lot work done on the article by a lot of people and certainly some sections need more bulking up, but on the whole I am fairly pleased with the way it is shaping up. Of course, in the WikiWay, you and anyone else are perfectly free to give it a "thorough rewrite" if you think that would improve the article. Stephen Carlson -- Stephen C. Carlson, mailto:scarlson@mindspring.com "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

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Re: WikiEN-l digest, Vol 1 #261 - 12 msgs
by Robert 10 Apr '03

10 Apr '03

I am apalled by Fred Bauder's personal attacks on me. He claimed to have read the Talk page for the Idolatry article, yet in point of fact Fred Bauder failed to mention all of the flames that "Dietary Fiber" write about to me, Fred failed to mention the fact that Dietary Fiber is on some quest to attack my personal religious beliefs (which is blatantly inappropriate on Wikipedia); Fred "overlooked" the forged quote, and then Fred only quoted my response to the trolling...and then stated that _I_ should be put on some sort of watch. I am saddened by his behaviour. If Fred Bauder cannot control himself, let him go elsewhere until he calms down. Some of us have serious work to do. RK ===== "I prefer a wicked person who knows he is wicked, to a righteous person who knows he is righteous". The Seer of Lublin [Jacob Isaac Ha-Hozeh Mi-Lublin, 1745-1815] __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Streamline the sysop recruiting process
by Poor, Edmund W 09 Apr '03

09 Apr '03

Actually, sysops can query the server; they are limited to "read-only" queries, however. What I was suggesting was that some Wikipedians other than the Developers have the technical ability to: * grant "sysop rights" to users * block a signed-in vandal I don't think a sysop blocking a signed-in vandal should need to see their IP address. Even I as a developer never bothered to look up the IP of the half-dozen or so users I've been told to block. I just ran an UPDATE query in the database. Similarly, with promoting a contributor to sysop, I think Brion or Magnus could add a page called "Nominate user for sysop". After enough sysops nominated a user, they would automatically get sysop rights. The point is, I don't want to do Gatekeeper Functions any more. Not only is it time-consuming (up to 10 minutes per operation), but the task of determining whether a person is a foe or a friend should not be centralized on 4 or 5 people. And, yes, mav, I know I should put this on the main list, but I only subscribe to this one, so I hope anyone who responds will cross post back to wikien-l. And yes, Brion, I know you made a meta-page, but... lazily, but non-hierarchically, Ed Poor

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WikiEN-l April 2003