Hi,
I have a couple of questions regarding the Wiki Page ID. Does it always stay unique for the page, where the page itself is just a placeholder for any kind of information that might change over time?
Consider the following cases: 1. The first time someone creates page "Moon" it is assigned ID=1. If at some point the page is renamed to "The_Moon", the ID=1 remains intact. Is this correct? 2. What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page "The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed into a redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"? 3. Is it possible for page "Moon" to become a category "Category:Moon" with the same ID=1?
Thanks, Gintas
Hello Gintautas!
Am 21.04.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Gintautas Sulskus:
I have a couple of questions regarding the Wiki Page ID. Does it always stay unique for the page, where the page itself is just a placeholder for any kind of information that might change over time?
That is indeed the idea. COntent changes, the page ID stays the same. If you need to identify a specific state of the page, use the revision ID (aka permalink).
Note however that page IDs are considered "internal" identifiers. They are stable, but they are not the canonical way to access or identify a page. Use the title for that - or, in the context of Wikidata, use the entity ID.
Consider the following cases:
- The first time someone creates page "Moon" it is assigned ID=1. If at some
point the page is renamed to "The_Moon", the ID=1 remains intact. Is this correct?
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed into a redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
- Is it possible for page "Moon" to become a category "Category:Moon" with the
same ID=1?
Yes, pages can be moved into the category namespace.
Though I agree Daniel with what you wrote about redirects, we do have a policy (I believe I have read this somewhere) that if you create a redirect in the case of two items about the same thing, then it should always be the older item number that survives (and the merge gadget is supposed to check for this). Maybe that's too much detail information though. So for the given example "Moon" was created first and thus it is "Moon" id that should survive, whether or not the label is set to "The Moon" later.
<quote>
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed into
a
redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects. </quote>
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de
wrote:
Hello Gintautas!
Am 21.04.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Gintautas Sulskus:
I have a couple of questions regarding the Wiki Page ID. Does it always
stay
unique for the page, where the page itself is just a placeholder for any
kind of
information that might change over time?
That is indeed the idea. COntent changes, the page ID stays the same. If you need to identify a specific state of the page, use the revision ID (aka permalink).
Note however that page IDs are considered "internal" identifiers. They are stable, but they are not the canonical way to access or identify a page. Use the title for that - or, in the context of Wikidata, use the entity ID.
Consider the following cases:
- The first time someone creates page "Moon" it is assigned ID=1. If at
some
point the page is renamed to "The_Moon", the ID=1 remains intact. Is
this correct?
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed
into a
redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
- Is it possible for page "Moon" to become a category "Category:Moon"
with the
same ID=1?
Yes, pages can be moved into the category namespace.
-- Daniel Kinzler Principal Platform Engineer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Fantastic answers Daniel and Jane! All is crystal clear now.
Thank you very much!
Best, Gin
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
Though I agree Daniel with what you wrote about redirects, we do have a policy (I believe I have read this somewhere) that if you create a redirect in the case of two items about the same thing, then it should always be the older item number that survives (and the merge gadget is supposed to check for this). Maybe that's too much detail information though. So for the given example "Moon" was created first and thus it is "Moon" id that should survive, whether or not the label is set to "The Moon" later.
<quote>
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed
into a
redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
</quote>
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Kinzler < daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hello Gintautas!
Am 21.04.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Gintautas Sulskus:
I have a couple of questions regarding the Wiki Page ID. Does it always
stay
unique for the page, where the page itself is just a placeholder for
any kind of
information that might change over time?
That is indeed the idea. COntent changes, the page ID stays the same. If you need to identify a specific state of the page, use the revision ID (aka permalink).
Note however that page IDs are considered "internal" identifiers. They are stable, but they are not the canonical way to access or identify a page. Use the title for that - or, in the context of Wikidata, use the entity ID.
Consider the following cases:
- The first time someone creates page "Moon" it is assigned ID=1. If
at some
point the page is renamed to "The_Moon", the ID=1 remains intact. Is
this correct?
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed
into a
redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
- Is it possible for page "Moon" to become a category "Category:Moon"
with the
same ID=1?
Yes, pages can be moved into the category namespace.
-- Daniel Kinzler Principal Platform Engineer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Hi,
A number of years ago I was having some very frustrating times with the identifier instability in dbpedia. Two people looking up an identifier for the same concept at different times ended up with different identifiers.
So I created a proof of concept, dbpedialite, which uses Wikipedia PageIDs: http://www.dbpedialite.org/things/87851 (At the time there was a page title edit war between Stoat and Ermine)
But now we have Wikidata – which solves this problem much better – so I should really get on and decommission dbpedialite.
What are you using Wikipedia Page IDs for? Might it be better to store the Wikidata ID and then lookup the Wikipedia page on demand?
nick.
From: Wikidata <wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of Gintautas Sulskus <gintautas.sulskus@gmail.commailto:gintautas.sulskus@gmail.com> Reply-To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Monday, 24 April 2017 at 15:37 To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikidata] Wiki PageID
Fantastic answers Daniel and Jane! All is crystal clear now.
Thank you very much!
Best, Gin
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.commailto:jane023@gmail.com> wrote: Though I agree Daniel with what you wrote about redirects, we do have a policy (I believe I have read this somewhere) that if you create a redirect in the case of two items about the same thing, then it should always be the older item number that survives (and the merge gadget is supposed to check for this). Maybe that's too much detail information though. So for the given example "Moon" was created first and thus it is "Moon" id that should survive, whether or not the label is set to "The Moon" later.
<quote>
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed into a redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects. </quote>
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.demailto:daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de> wrote: Hello Gintautas!
Am 21.04.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Gintautas Sulskus:
I have a couple of questions regarding the Wiki Page ID. Does it always stay unique for the page, where the page itself is just a placeholder for any kind of information that might change over time?
That is indeed the idea. COntent changes, the page ID stays the same. If you need to identify a specific state of the page, use the revision ID (aka permalink).
Note however that page IDs are considered "internal" identifiers. They are stable, but they are not the canonical way to access or identify a page. Use the title for that - or, in the context of Wikidata, use the entity ID.
Consider the following cases:
- The first time someone creates page "Moon" it is assigned ID=1. If at some
point the page is renamed to "The_Moon", the ID=1 remains intact. Is this correct?
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed into a redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
- Is it possible for page "Moon" to become a category "Category:Moon" with the
same ID=1?
Yes, pages can be moved into the category namespace.
-- Daniel Kinzler Principal Platform Engineer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
_______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
_______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
----------------------------
http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.
---------------------
Hoi, It is indeed better to look up Wikipedia identifiers on demand. The wikipedia articles associated with a Wikidata identifiers are a legacy. Regularly Wikipedia articles are associated with different identifiers when it is found that there is a mismatch between the different Wikipedia article.. A good example; rose for the flower and rose for the plant.. Thanks, GerardM
On 24 April 2017 at 16:51, Nicholas Humfrey nicholas.humfrey@bbc.co.uk wrote:
Hi,
A number of years ago I was having some very frustrating times with the identifier instability in dbpedia. Two people looking up an identifier for the same concept at different times ended up with different identifiers.
So I created a proof of concept, dbpedialite, which uses Wikipedia PageIDs: http://www.dbpedialite.org/things/87851 (At the time there was a page title edit war between Stoat and Ermine)
But now we have Wikidata – which solves this problem much better – so I should really get on and decommission dbpedialite.
What are you using Wikipedia Page IDs for? Might it be better to store the Wikidata ID and then lookup the Wikipedia page on demand?
nick.
From: Wikidata wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of Gintautas Sulskus gintautas.sulskus@gmail.com Reply-To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." < wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Monday, 24 April 2017 at 15:37 To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." < wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikidata] Wiki PageID
Fantastic answers Daniel and Jane! All is crystal clear now.
Thank you very much!
Best, Gin
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
Though I agree Daniel with what you wrote about redirects, we do have a policy (I believe I have read this somewhere) that if you create a redirect in the case of two items about the same thing, then it should always be the older item number that survives (and the merge gadget is supposed to check for this). Maybe that's too much detail information though. So for the given example "Moon" was created first and thus it is "Moon" id that should survive, whether or not the label is set to "The Moon" later.
<quote>
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed
into a
redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
</quote>
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Kinzler < daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hello Gintautas!
Am 21.04.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Gintautas Sulskus:
I have a couple of questions regarding the Wiki Page ID. Does it
always stay
unique for the page, where the page itself is just a placeholder for
any kind of
information that might change over time?
That is indeed the idea. COntent changes, the page ID stays the same. If you need to identify a specific state of the page, use the revision ID (aka permalink).
Note however that page IDs are considered "internal" identifiers. They are stable, but they are not the canonical way to access or identify a page. Use the title for that - or, in the context of Wikidata, use the entity ID.
Consider the following cases:
- The first time someone creates page "Moon" it is assigned ID=1. If
at some
point the page is renamed to "The_Moon", the ID=1 remains intact. Is
this correct?
Yes, page IDs survive renaming/moving the page.
- What if we have page "Moon" with ID=1. Someone creates a second-page
"The_Moon" with ID=2. Is it possible that page "Moon" is transformed
into a
redirect? Then, "Moon" would be redirecting to page "The_Moon"?
Yes, pages can become redirects.
- Is it possible for page "Moon" to become a category "Category:Moon"
with the
same ID=1?
Yes, pages can be moved into the category namespace.
-- Daniel Kinzler Principal Platform Engineer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
On 4/24/17 10:51 AM, Nicholas Humfrey wrote:
Hi,
A number of years ago I was having some very frustrating times with the identifier instability in dbpedia. Two people looking up an identifier for the same concept at different times ended up with different identifiers.
So I created a proof of concept, dbpedialite, which uses Wikipedia PageIDs: http://www.dbpedialite.org/things/87851 (At the time there was a page title edit war between Stoat and Ermine)
But now we have Wikidata – which solves this problem much better – so I should really get on and decommission dbpedialite.
What are you using Wikipedia Page IDs for? Might it be better to store the Wikidata ID and then lookup the Wikipedia page on demand?
nick.
Hi Nick,
Please don't decommission dbpedialite, it does provide utility on other fronts too :)
On 26/04/2017, 15:41, "Wikidata on behalf of Kingsley Idehen" <wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
Hi Nick,
Please don't decommission dbpedialite, it does provide utility on other fronts too :)
Hi Kingsley,
Could you elaborate? I was planning on turning dbpedialite into 301 redirects to Wikidata for a period of time before switching it off.
nick.
----------------------------- http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -----------------------------
On 5/3/17 3:37 PM, Nicholas Humfrey wrote:
On 26/04/2017, 15:41, "Wikidata on behalf of Kingsley Idehen" <wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
Hi Nick,
Please don't decommission dbpedialite, it does provide utility on other fronts too :)
Hi Kingsley,
Could you elaborate? I was planning on turning dbpedialite into 301 redirects to Wikidata for a period of time before switching it off.
nick.
Nick,
dbpedialite provides a "best practices" demonstration for:
1. Linked Data Deployment -- i.e., it supports both content-negotiation and metadata embedded in HTML deployment options
2. Bridging across DBpedia, Wikidata, and Wikipedia -- this also provides value to DBpedia and Wikidata with regards to cross-reference reconcilliation.
I believe the items above remain important :)
Aren't both ... uhm ... "use cases" supported by dbpedia proper anyway?
On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:40 AM Kingsley Idehen kidehen@openlinksw.com wrote:
On 5/3/17 3:37 PM, Nicholas Humfrey wrote:
On 26/04/2017, 15:41, "Wikidata on behalf of Kingsley Idehen" <wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of
kidehen@openlinksw.com>
wrote:
Hi Nick,
Please don't decommission dbpedialite, it does provide utility on other fronts too :)
Hi Kingsley,
Could you elaborate? I was planning on turning dbpedialite into 301 redirects to Wikidata for a period of time before switching it off.
nick.
Nick,
dbpedialite provides a "best practices" demonstration for:
- Linked Data Deployment -- i.e., it supports both content-negotiation
and metadata embedded in HTML deployment options
- Bridging across DBpedia, Wikidata, and Wikipedia -- this also
provides value to DBpedia and Wikidata with regards to cross-reference reconcilliation.
I believe the items above remain important :)
-- Regards,
Kingsley Idehen Founder & CEO OpenLink Software (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com)
Weblogs (Blogs): Legacy Blog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ Blogspot Blog: http://kidehen.blogspot.com Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
Profile Pages: Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Web Identities (WebID): Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
On 5/4/17 8:29 PM, Denny Vrandečić wrote:
Aren't both ... uhm ... "use cases" supported by dbpedia proper anyway?
Yes, but "best practices" in a single place don't solve the problems associated with mass appreciation and adoption. Basically, the more the merrier!
Why? Because I don't believe in the power of one, with regards to a Semantic Web of Linked Data.
Kingsley
On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:40 AM Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
On 5/3/17 3:37 PM, Nicholas Humfrey wrote: > > On 26/04/2017, 15:41, "Wikidata on behalf of Kingsley Idehen" > <wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> > wrote: > >> Hi Nick, >> >> Please don't decommission dbpedialite, it does provide utility on other >> fronts too :) >> > > Hi Kingsley, > > Could you elaborate? I was planning on turning dbpedialite into 301 > redirects to Wikidata for a period of time before switching it off. > > > nick. > > > > ----------------------------- > http://www.bbc.co.uk > Nick, dbpedialite provides a "best practices" demonstration for: 1. Linked Data Deployment -- i.e., it supports both content-negotiation and metadata embedded in HTML deployment options 2. Bridging across DBpedia, Wikidata, and Wikipedia -- this also provides value to DBpedia and Wikidata with regards to cross-reference reconcilliation. I believe the items above remain important :) -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Founder & CEO OpenLink Software (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com) Weblogs (Blogs): Legacy Blog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen/> Blogspot Blog: http://kidehen.blogspot.com Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen Profile Pages: Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen Web Identities (WebID): Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Hi,
I have finally got around to starting to decommission dbpedialite.org Pages now redirect to Wikidata entity URIs.
I won't be renewing the domain name when it expires 2019-05-09.
nick.
From: Nicholas Humfrey <nicholas.humfrey@bbc.co.ukmailto:nicholas.humfrey@bbc.co.uk> Date: Monday, 24 April 2017 at 15:51 To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikidata] Wiki PageID
Hi, A number of years ago I was having some very frustrating times with the identifier instability in dbpedia. Two people looking up an identifier for the same concept at different times ended up with different identifiers.
So I created a proof of concept, dbpedialite, which uses Wikipedia PageIDs: http://www.dbpedialite.org/things/87851 (At the time there was a page title edit war between Stoat and Ermine)
But now we have Wikidata – which solves this problem much better – so I should really get on and decommission dbpedialite.
What are you using Wikipedia Page IDs for? Might it be better to store the Wikidata ID and then lookup the Wikipedia page on demand?
nick.
From: Wikidata <wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of Gintautas Sulskus <gintautas.sulskus@gmail.commailto:gintautas.sulskus@gmail.com> Reply-To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Monday, 24 April 2017 at 15:37 To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata@
----------------------------
http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.
---------------------