Hoi, You are conflating two things that are not related. ORES is really helpful and there is plenty of room for it to function extremely well on Wikidata. Yes, ORES will do good things for Wikidata but it is separated from the proposed item quality.
When an item is created because of the existence on the Kyrgyz Wikipedia, it may not even have a label. This happens a lot and Amir, the developer of ORES has a bot that he regularly runs to add one label. The name of the article. When an article is added the same bot does the same work. We do not have to rate it for a specific "level of quality" when we are to improve our quality, this bot runs every week automatically. When an automated rating system sees this, it can perform the remedy..
When as I understand from Lydia, the ratings are done automagically, in an ORES kinda way, it gains relevance. The point though is that still the quality of all the individual items on their own is of hardly any significance. It becomes relevant when it can accept the result of a query and provide results on the basis of that.. For instance.. all the items with "catalog" "black lunch table" and give me a rating for all the articles with no articles or no articles in Spanish...
The problem with rating "item quality" is that on its own, it has no application. I just finished adding award winners [1]. Based on the quality of the English article, I added the award winners using "linked items" and "petscan". I added a few items because as there are no articles. The Turkish article for the award has plenty of red links. It would be a quality improvement when these red links are associated with the items. An article writer immediately finds the English article and the Wikidata statements. That is actionable quality as it provides a way to stabilise both Wikidata, en.wp and tr.wp. For the Turkish language the labels of the red links may be used. When you consider quality, it is like an onion. On the first level all the information is there, on the second level, we may be missing education (that may still be in Freebase).. an employer. whatever makes sense in a context
When there is not even a red link but a text like for English, a tool like ORES could recognise the label in the text and accept it as a result that is probably positive.
When we are really interested in quality, we need to compare the content of the many projects including Wikidata and find that it is in balance.
My key criticism stands of the current quality standard: this is a first step but there are severe doubt of the relevance of several aspects. As a first iteration it will prove what is good and where it needs improvement. But without an interface into query it is useless. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?q=Q13582570
On 22 March 2017 at 15:33, Aaron Halfaker aaron.halfaker@gmail.com wrote:
Hey wiki-research-l folks,
Gerard didn't actually link you to the quality criteria he takes issue with. See https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Item_quality I think Gerard's argument basically boils down to Wikidata != Wikipedia, but it's unclear how that is relevant to the goal of measuring the quality of items. This is something I've been talking to Lydia about for a long time. It's been great for the few Wikis where we have models deployed in ORES[1] (English, French, and Russian Wikipedia). So we'd like to have the same for Wikidata. As Lydia said, we do all sorts of fascinating things with a model like this. Honestly, I think the criteria is coming together quite nicely and we're just starting a pilot labeling campaign to work through a set of issues before starting the primary labeling drive.
-Aaron
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi, What I have read is that it will be individual items that are graded.
That
is not what helps you determine what items are lacking in something. When you want to determine if something is lacking you need a relational approach. When you approach a award like this one [1], it was added to
make
the award for a person [2] more complete. No real importance is given to this award, just a few more people were added because they are part of a group that gets more attention from me [3]. For yet another award [4], I added all the people who received the award because I was told by
someone's
expert opinion that they were all notable (in the Wikipedia sense of the word). I added several of these people in Wikidata. Arguably, the
Wikidata
the quality for the item for the award is great but it has no article associated to it in Wikipedia but that has nothing to do with the quality of the information it provides. It is easy and obvious to recognise in
one
level deeper that quality issues arise; the info for several people is meagre at best.You cannot deny their relevance though; removing them destroys the quality for the award.
The point is that in relations you can describe quality, in the grading that is proposed there is nothing really that is actionable.
When you add links to the mix, these same links have no bearing on the quality of the Wikidata item. Why would it? Links only become interesting when you compare the statements in Wikidata with the links to other articles in the same Wikipedia. This is not what this approach brings.
Really, how will the grades to items make a difference. How will it help
us
understand that "items relating to railroads are lacking"? It does not.
When you want to have indicators for quality; here is one.. an author
(and
its subclasses) should have a VIAF identifier. An artist with objects in the Getty Museum should have an ULAN number. The lack of such information is actionable. The number of interwiki links is not, the number of statements are not and even references are not that convincing. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=29000734 [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=7315382 [3] https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=3308284 [4] https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=28934266
On 22 March 2017 at 11:56, Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de
wrote:
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
In your reply I find little argument why this approach is useful. I
do
not
find a result that is actionable. There is little point to this
approach
and it does not fit with well with much of the Wikidata practice.
Gerard, the outcome will be very actionable. We will have the groundwork needed to identify individual items and sets of items that need improvement. If it for example turns out that our items related to railroads are particularly lacking then that is something we can concentrate on if we so chose. We can do editathons, data partnerships, quality drives and and and.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
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