I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
AFAIK, there isn't way to be doing this yet for Android -- but the mobile team is currently working on building out the functionality for this in the Android PhoneGap application.
This is a great initiative, though, and something that is being experimented with on a few Linux tablets. These tablets have an offline Wikipedia stored on the SD card, which is then read by the application Kiwix[1] which is already installed on the low-memory device.
Jessie
[1] www.kiwix.org
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
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and there is WikiOnBoard vor Symbian devices:
http://cip.github.com/WikiOnBoard/
using the same content as Kiwix does (ZIM files).
/Manuel
Am 16.04.2012 21:28, schrieb Jessie Wild:
AFAIK, there isn't way to be doing this yet for Android -- but the mobile team is currently working on building out the functionality for this in the Android PhoneGap application.
This is a great initiative, though, and something that is being experimented with on a few Linux tablets. These tablets have an offline Wikipedia stored on the SD card, which is then read by the application Kiwix[1] which is already installed on the low-memory device.
Jessie
[1] www.kiwix.org
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 2:43 AM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
Hi
There's a bunch of issues here, that I believe get glossed over with offline versions. I am going to ramble a bit about them, if that's alright-
1. Why small languages? - Small language versions of Wikipedia, and sister projects usually don't get the focus in new development. There is also the point, that several small language versions, are in fact, too small to be helpful. The difference between the English and the second closest version is rather prominent, the really small versions might too small and incomplete, to be a valuable resource.
2. There is the rather large issue of supporting non-Latin scripts for mobile, that would make offline version usable and accessible.
3. Market trends- Majority of the developing world isn't on Android and unlikely to be in the next couple of years. Symbian is the dominant player; albeit an abandoned OS, it is only the transitory one till Nokia shifts operations completely. With its limited memory, lack of expansion and a very basic OS, offline apps are a problem to get and support on it.
4. Smart phones- It is generally not ideal to develop offline readers for android phone. Smart phone by definition have internet access; if someone can download a copy on their computer, they should be able to access the online version on their phone using the same internet access. Bandwidth costs can't be prohibitive for WiFi, if they can download the entire offline version. While there might be short term issues with connectivity and data charges, they are relatively temporary infrastructure-related issues. By the time, the investment starts paying of on apps and development, the infrastructure issues might have been resolved.
5. The cards and their support isn't universal. Not all android devices have the same expansion slots, Symbian based devices that dominate the developing world mostly have next to no expansion slots.
Rambling a bit further, there are offline devices like the Wikireader, and OLPC. I recall annoying certain staff members 2-3 years ago to also look into pre-loaded version for Kindle and Ebook devices, even tablets. At this stage, in terms of usability and price, Kindle and Epaper based devices, are miles ahead of other Wiki-only dedicated readers. There isn't one currently but there should be an open-source ePaper device cheaper than the kindle around the corner.
Regards Theo
On 4/16/12 1:34 PM, Theo10011 wrote: 1. Why small languages? - Small language versions of Wikipedia, and
sister projects usually don't get the focus in new development. There is also the point, that several small language versions, are in fact, too small to be helpful. The difference between the English and the second closest version is rather prominent, the really small versions might too small and incomplete, to be a valuable resource.
Not everyone speaks English.
I am working on a specific request for a specific project in a "difficult" (heavy censorship) country.
- There is the rather large issue of supporting non-Latin scripts for
mobile, that would make offline version usable and accessible.
Indeed.
- Market trends- Majority of the developing world isn't on Android and
unlikely to be in the next couple of years. Symbian is the dominant player; albeit an abandoned OS, it is only the transitory one till Nokia shifts operations completely. With its limited memory, lack of expansion and a very basic OS, offline apps are a problem to get and support on it.
I agree with all this, although it isn't especially relevant to this particular project.
- Smart phones- It is generally not ideal to develop offline readers
for android phone. Smart phone by definition have internet access; if someone can download a copy on their computer, they should be able to access the online version on their phone using the same internet access.
Not in places where censorship is a major problem, and not if bandwidth costs are too high.
To re-iterate, I'm working on a specific project that would potentially meet a particular need. I don't recommend a major investment of resources, but if there's an easy way to do this, it'd be great.
--Jimbo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:28 AM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
Not everyone speaks English.
Neither do the rest of us, Jimmy. ;)
I am working on a specific request for a specific project in a "difficult" (heavy censorship) country.
Ah, it would help if you can give the name or a list of languages you have in mind, or at least how many article range they would be in - over 150k or 700k range. It might be relevant from the script support and the dump size, point-of-view.
Regards Theo
Am 16.04.2012 22:34, schrieb Theo10011:
- Market trends- Majority of the developing world isn't on Android and
unlikely to be in the next couple of years. Symbian is the dominant player; albeit an abandoned OS, it is only the transitory one till Nokia shifts operations completely. With its limited memory, lack of expansion and a very basic OS, offline apps are a problem to get and support on it.
I think you are mixing up Symbian and S40/Asha. Both platforms have very significant market share in the developing world. Supporting offline wikipedia on Symbian is not an issue. One example is WikiOnBoard, but actually offline Wikipedia is usable on Symbian since about 2003. However, supporting offline WIkipedia on S40/Asha is challenging. I believe that this is not really due to hardware limitations, but rather because apps must be implemented in Java (J2ME) and cannot use native code. Note that for a similar reason it may be difficult to support offline wikipedia on some higher-end platforms such as windows phone.
Best regards, Christian
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Christian Pühringer cip@gmx.at wrote:
I think you are mixing up Symbian and S40/Asha. Both platforms have very significant market share in the developing world. Supporting offline wikipedia on Symbian is not an issue. One example is WikiOnBoard, but actually offline Wikipedia is usable on Symbian since about 2003. However, supporting offline WIkipedia on S40/Asha is challenging. I believe that this is not really due to hardware limitations, but rather because apps must be implemented in Java (J2ME) and cannot use native code. Note that for a similar reason it may be difficult to support offline wikipedia on some higher-end platforms such as windows phone.
Hi
I believe you are conflating a couple of things yourself. First, S40 is the platform [1], Asha is a series of phones using S40, targeting the developing markets[2]. Asha series was released in Q4 of 2011[3], so they are fairly new in the market. On a side-note, Asha is also the Hindi word for 'hope'.
Now, for nomenclatures of smart phones; in several descriptions, S40 is not treated as a smartphone, it is technically marketed as a "feature phone". Mobile market share distributions, usually omit S40 as a smartphone platform[4]. The S40 itself, was planned to be superseded by another short-term platform from Nokia. To the best of my knowledge, S40 was designed to be a simpler platform than S60/Symbian, it does not have a native code API for third parties and thus, does not support installable applications beyond MIDlets, written in Java. They are usually restricted to much smaller screens. To reiterate it was designed not to support installable apps and be a basic, simpler alternative to S60. And I'm quiet certain those same limitation will not affect the windows phone. :)
The problem with Symbian in the developing world is not the platform itself, but the fragmentation and the hardware. In order to cut costs, they are rarely designed with applications and future expansion in mind. The infrastructure and the access are another thing, that doesn't help the situation much but that is another rant for another time. ;)
Regards Theo
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_40 [2]http://ncomprod.nokia.com/nokia-asha-smarter-mobile-phones [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nokia_products#Nokia_Asha_series [4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_operating_system#Market_share
Am 18.04.2012 00:00, schrieb Theo10011:
I believe you are conflating a couple of things yourself. First, S40 is the platform [1], Asha is a series of phones using S40, targeting the developing markets[2]. Asha series was released in Q4 of 2011[3], so they are fairly new in the market. On a side-note, Asha is also the Hindi word for 'hope'.
Let's hope for an successor [1] of Asha which is more offline Wikipedia friendly :)
Now, for nomenclatures of smart phones; in several descriptions, S40 is not treated as a smartphone, it is technically marketed as a "feature phone". Mobile market share distributions, usually omit S40 as a smartphone platform[4]. The S40 itself, was planned to be superseded by another short-term platform from Nokia. To the best of my knowledge, S40 was designed to be a simpler platform than S60/Symbian, it does not have a native code API for third parties and thus, does not support installable applications beyond MIDlets, written in Java. They are usually restricted to much smaller screens. To reiterate it was designed not to support installable apps and be a basic, simpler alternative to S60. And I'm quiet certain those same limitation will not affect the windows phone. :)
I think we agree on that the challenge in supporting offline Wikipedia on S40 is less the hardware but more that only J2ME midlets are supported. AFAIK this leads to two main problems: 1. Slower than native code, which is mainly a problem for decompression. 2. Potential restrictions in handling of large files. At least when I looked into this last time, which was about 6 years ago, seeking was an issue.
Both points probably make it impossible to support standard zim files directly. Using a specially designed file format may solve this issues, but - besides being a lot more effort - 2. may be pretty challenging. Windows phone neither supports native code (only C#), thus it is probably affected by 1. while 2. should not be a problem. Thus while it is probably significantly easier to support windows phone than S40, it is still probable that standard zim files won't work well. Therefore significant additional effort to support offline wikipedia may be required on windows phone as well.
The problem with Symbian in the developing world is not the platform itself, but the fragmentation and the hardware. In order to cut costs, they are rarely designed with applications and future expansion in mind. The infrastructure and the access are another thing, that doesn't help the situation much but that is another rant for another time. ;)
I disagree that fragmentation and limited expansion is a major issue for symbian support. For example wikionboard supports Symbian 3rd FP1, Symbian 5th and Symbian^3, which basically means that all symbian phones released since about end 2007 are supported [1]. In addition SDHC-card support is very common in Symbian phones. In difference for example to Windows Phone, only a few Symbian phones don't support SDHC cards.
For example in India [3] the most used phones in Nokia store according to [4] are 5233, 2700, 5130, X2-01, 5800: 2700 and 5130 are S40 with 2GB sd card maximum, X2-01 with 8GB sd card maximum [5]. 5233 and 5800 are Symbian 5th edition with SDHC support. I'm aware that this statistic is somewhat biased, because you need mobile internet or a PC with internet to download apps, but I believe it's sufficient to get an impression.
Best regards, Christian [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltemi_%28operating_system%29 [2] Supporting even older phones would be technically possible, but it's hardly worth the effort, because these could not be programmed with Qt, but only native symbian. [3] 20% of wikionboard downloads are from India, therefore I've used it in the example [4] http://www.developer.nokia.com/Distribute/Statistics.xhtml [5] According to nokia, I'd expect that this is SDHC and therefore 32GB
That's exactly what www.wikipock.com provides. Preloaded microSD card with Wikipedia + a native Android app.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Hi,
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Patrice Khawam patrice@wikipock.comwrote:
That's exactly what www.wikipock.com provides. Preloaded microSD card with Wikipedia + a native Android app.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards
and
the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large
size
isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
I suppose this was one of the key requirement from http://www.sakshat.ac.in/ , they wanted something similar for the 50$ tablet Akash they are shipping in india. They wanted offline content to be shipped with the device.
I am sure they contacted folks from the list on same.
Hi..
Yes, we are looking for offline wikipedia in several regional Indian languages for our 50$ Akaash tablet. We want offline content to be shipped with the device.
I already had few conversation with Emmanuel Engelhart in this regard, I am waiting for a fruitful solution from him soon.
Thanks & Regards
Shahid
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 12:23 PM, atul jha koolhead17@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Patrice Khawam patrice@wikipock.com wrote:
That's exactly what www.wikipock.com provides. Preloaded microSD card with Wikipedia + a native Android app.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
I suppose this was one of the key requirement from http://www.sakshat.ac.in/%C2%A0, they wanted something similar for the 50$ tablet Akash they are shipping in india. They wanted offline content to be shipped with the device.
I am sure they contacted folks from the list on same.
-- Atul
www.atuljha.com
irc(freenode) : koolhead17
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
How about using EPUB as a format?
EPUB is an open standard and there are quite a few free ePUB readers for most platforms (including Symbian). Non-Latin scripts would be handled by the client and there would be no need to develop new clients.
We (PediaPress) have a working prototype for ePUB export via the collection extension. However, EPUB export has only been tested with collections of a few thousand articles. Essentially, it should be possible to generate EPUB files containing all articles of even the biggest wikipedia projects - but this might need some more work.
Christoph
Am 17.04.2012 um 09:20 schrieb Shahid Farooqui:
Hi..
Yes, we are looking for offline wikipedia in several regional Indian languages for our 50$ Akaash tablet. We want offline content to be shipped with the device.
I already had few conversation with Emmanuel Engelhart in this regard, I am waiting for a fruitful solution from him soon.
Thanks & Regards
Shahid
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 12:23 PM, atul jha koolhead17@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Patrice Khawam patrice@wikipock.com wrote:
That's exactly what www.wikipock.com provides. Preloaded microSD card with Wikipedia + a native Android app.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory cards and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a small language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not have access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
I suppose this was one of the key requirement from http://www.sakshat.ac.in/ , they wanted something similar for the 50$ tablet Akash they are shipping in india. They wanted offline content to be shipped with the device.
I am sure they contacted folks from the list on same.
-- Atul
www.atuljha.com
irc(freenode) : koolhead17
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Hi all, The Android market has an offline Wiki reader application capable of reading ZIM files (http://bit.ly/I2I3Ix). Currently, it houses ArchWiki and is built using zimreader-java ( http://svn.openzim.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/zimreader-java/).
I haven't tried it out myself, but it should be feasible to build a similiar one for Wikipedia as well.
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Christoph Kepper < christoph.kepper@pediapress.com> wrote:
How about using EPUB as a format?
EPUB is an open standard and there are quite a few free ePUB readers for most platforms (including Symbian). Non-Latin scripts would be handled by the client and there would be no need to develop new clients.
We (PediaPress) have a working prototype for ePUB export via the collection extension. However, EPUB export has only been tested with collections of a few thousand articles. Essentially, it should be possible to generate EPUB files containing all articles of even the biggest wikipedia projects - but this might need some more work.
Christoph
Am 17.04.2012 um 09:20 schrieb Shahid Farooqui:
Hi..
Yes, we are looking for offline wikipedia in several regional Indian languages for our 50$ Akaash tablet. We want offline content to be shipped with the device.
I already had few conversation with Emmanuel Engelhart in this regard, I am waiting for a fruitful solution from him soon.
Thanks & Regards
Shahid
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 12:23 PM, atul jha koolhead17@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Patrice Khawam patrice@wikipock.com wrote:
That's exactly what www.wikipock.com provides. Preloaded microSD card with Wikipedia + a native Android app.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com
wrote:
I'm particularly interested in availability of Wikipedia on memory
cards
and the like. This is for a relatively small language, so extremely large size isn't the issue.
I'm wanting to know if there is a way to distribute Wikipedia in a
small
language on memory cards for android phones. This is for people for whom data service is not available or cost prohibitive, and who may not
have
access to a computer for transfer. Physical distribution of cards is something that could be done.
--Jimbo
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
I suppose this was one of the key requirement from http://www.sakshat.ac.in/ , they wanted something similar for the
50$
tablet Akash they are shipping in india. They wanted offline content to
be
shipped with the device.
I am sure they contacted folks from the list on same.
-- Atul
www.atuljha.com
irc(freenode) : koolhead17
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
-- Christoph Kepper PediaPress GmbH Boppstraße 64 55118 Mainz Phone: +49 (0)6131 3271809
Offline-l mailing list Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
Oh, I wasn't aware that zimreader-java is already in production!
Thanks for that, I am going to install that app immediately.
/Manuel
Am 17.04.2012 13:38, schrieb Arunesh Mathur:
Hi all, The Android market has an offline Wiki reader application capable of reading ZIM files (http://bit.ly/I2I3Ix). Currently, it houses ArchWiki and is built using zimreader-java (http://svn.openzim.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/zimreader-java/).
I haven't tried it out myself, but it should be feasible to build a similiar one for Wikipedia as well.
Am 17.04.2012 14:02, schrieb Manuel Schneider:
Oh, I wasn't aware that zimreader-java is already in production!
Thanks for that, I am going to install that app immediately.
/Manuel
Am 17.04.2012 13:38, schrieb Arunesh Mathur:
Me too. I supported the development of the java port and it is nice to hear, that it was successful. Thank you. Great work!
Tommi
I think having an offline reader for J2ME based phones is very useful. They cover a large share of the market in developing/emerging markets, for example, here in India. I did manage to build such a reader, but could not use ZIM files due to the limited memory on such feature phones and instead, had to make do with a custom file format [containing both images + text].
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:50 AM, Tommi Mäkitalo tommi@tntnet.org wrote:
Am 17.04.2012 14:02, schrieb Manuel Schneider:
Oh, I wasn't aware that zimreader-java is already in production!
Thanks for that, I am going to install that app immediately.
/Manuel
Am 17.04.2012 13:38, schrieb Arunesh Mathur:
Me too. I supported the development of the java port and it is nice to hear, that it was successful. Thank you. Great work!
Tommi
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