If you are in beta on mobile now, there's a new look for the editor. The heading of the editor now says "Editing [article name]" in English.
The problem is that designers want this to be always one line long at most and truncate it when it's longer. This is fine in English where "Editing" is at the beginning, not OK in some languages, e.g. Japanese:
http://tinyurl.com/qftpgy4 (click the pencil icon)
where "editing" ("編集中") is at the end. If we truncate this, it won't make much sense.
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
On 12/11/2013 08:12 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
That's almost certainly not possible in every language. It could work as a suggestion, though ("If possible...").
However, it might be better to wrap the title (language aside, it could provide better usability for some scenarios, e.g. if you lock your phone when editing, then come back to it and want to see what page you're on).
Matt Flaschen
some point of clarity in english and languages with the same structure it would be :
*Editing *Article Name
in languages where the verb order is reversed it would be
*Edit* Article Name
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation
M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On 12/11/2013 08:12 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
That's almost certainly not possible in every language. It could work as a suggestion, though ("If possible...").
However, it might be better to wrap the title (language aside, it could provide better usability for some scenarios, e.g. if you lock your phone when editing, then come back to it and want to see what page you're on).
Matt Flaschen
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
And in other languages it would be something else. We support roughly 300 languages - at least one of them isnt going to have a natural constructoon of that form. Insisting that translators have "editing" at the beginning of the line is a major step backwards.
-bawolff
On 2013-12-11 8:32 PM, "Jared Zimmerman" jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org wrote:
some point of clarity in english and languages with the same structure it
would be :
Editing Article Name
in languages where the verb order is reversed it would be
Edit Article Name
Jared Zimmerman \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation
M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmerman
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org
wrote:
On 12/11/2013 08:12 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
That's almost certainly not possible in every language. It could work
as a suggestion, though ("If possible...").
However, it might be better to wrap the title (language aside, it could
provide better usability for some scenarios, e.g. if you lock your phone when editing, then come back to it and want to see what page you're on).
Matt Flaschen
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
I felt I'd mess it up by sending this to i18n through NNTP and design through e-mail... Let's see if sending to both by NNTP will fix that.
On 12/11/2013 06:41 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
That's almost certainly not possible in every language. It could work as a suggestion, though ("If possible...").
Jared said that it doesn't even have to be treated as a sentence, can be something like "Editing: [article name]".
However, it might be better to wrap the title (language aside, it could provide better usability for some scenarios, e.g. if you lock your phone when editing, then come back to it and want to see what page you're on).
I'm not sure if I understand the example use case. Also, this solution has all sorts of other problems. Let's say we try to do it in PHP, we don't even know the browser window width. Let's say we do it in JavaScript, we know the browser window width, but we don't know how many characters will fit in a single line... For those reasons I'd rather stick with text-overflow: ellipsis in CSS.
On 12/11/2013 10:31 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
However, it might be better to wrap the title (language aside, it could provide better usability for some scenarios, e.g. if you lock your phone when editing, then come back to it and want to see what page you're on).
I'm not sure if I understand the example use case.
You open your browser back up and you want to see the full article name you're editing.
Let's say we do it in JavaScript, we know the browser window width, but we don't know how many characters will fit in a single line... For those reasons I'd rather stick with text-overflow: ellipsis in CSS.
I'm suggesting using the browser's normal wrapping algorithm (the same one a normal paragraph or div uses), rather than truncating or splitting the string based on an explicit calculation.
Matt Flaschen
The reason for not wrapping is this is a fixed header element and we want to reduce the amount of space it takes up on screen.
if you forget the entire name of the article you can scroll up to the top of the page.
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation
M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On 12/11/2013 10:31 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
However, it might be better to wrap the title (language aside, it could
provide better usability for some scenarios, e.g. if you lock your phone when editing, then come back to it and want to see what page you're on).
I'm not sure if I understand the example use case.
You open your browser back up and you want to see the full article name you're editing.
Let's say we do it in JavaScript, we know the browser window width, but
we don't know how many characters will fit in a single line... For those reasons I'd rather stick with text-overflow: ellipsis in CSS.
I'm suggesting using the browser's normal wrapping algorithm (the same one a normal paragraph or div uses), rather than truncating or splitting the string based on an explicit calculation.
Matt Flaschen
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Will it possible to split it to two messages: One natural, when there's no truncation, and one when you have to truncate. Or is the truncation completely automatic and you cannot know when it is truncated?
If it's completely automatic and there's no way to have two phrases, you'll probably have to separate the "editing" part to a separate message and explain it in qqq.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2013/12/12 Juliusz Gonera jgonera@wikimedia.org
If you are in beta on mobile now, there's a new look for the editor. The heading of the editor now says "Editing [article name]" in English.
The problem is that designers want this to be always one line long at most and truncate it when it's longer. This is fine in English where "Editing" is at the beginning, not OK in some languages, e.g. Japanese:
http://tinyurl.com/qftpgy4 (click the pencil icon)
where "editing" ("編集中") is at the end. If we truncate this, it won't make much sense.
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
-- Juliusz
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 08:51 +0200, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
Will it possible to split it to two messages: One natural, when there's no truncation, and one when you have to truncate. Or is the truncation completely automatic and you cannot know when it is truncated?
If it's completely automatic and there's no way to have two phrases, you'll probably have to separate the "editing" part to a separate message and explain it in qqq.
Are there technical reasons why using an ellipsis like "Long article name which will be trunca... editing" would not work?
andre
I'd suggest summarising the conversation so far and documenting a proposed best practice at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Design_best_practices
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 08:51 +0200, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
Will it possible to split it to two messages: One natural, when there's
no
truncation, and one when you have to truncate. Or is the truncation completely automatic and you cannot know when it is truncated?
If it's completely automatic and there's no way to have two phrases,
you'll
probably have to separate the "editing" part to a separate message and explain it in qqq.
Are there technical reasons why using an ellipsis like "Long article name which will be trunca... editing" would not work?
andre
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Juliusz Gonera, 12/12/2013 02:12:
where "editing" ("編集中") is at the end. If we truncate this, it won't make much sense.
Can't you just quote the title? Then it doesn't matter if the quotation is partial, nor its position, nor if it's subject/complement/object in the translation.
Nemo
I came up with a CSS-only solution.
The message in English would be: '<strong>Editing</strong> <span>$1</span>' In Japanese: '<span>$1</span>を<strong>編集中</strong>'
Now the CSS (the message is inside a <h2>):
h2 { display: table; width: 100%;
> * { display: table-cell; // padding instead of spaces between words padding-right: .5em; }
strong { width: 1em; }
span { overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; // required for text-overflow to work max-width: 1em; } }
Comments?
Now, bonus question. The message is "'''Editing''' $1" now. Should I create a new key or just edit the English message?
On 12/11/2013 05:12 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
If you are in beta on mobile now, there's a new look for the editor. The heading of the editor now says "Editing [article name]" in English.
The problem is that designers want this to be always one line long at most and truncate it when it's longer. This is fine in English where "Editing" is at the beginning, not OK in some languages, e.g. Japanese:
http://tinyurl.com/qftpgy4 (click the pencil icon)
where "editing" ("編集中") is at the end. If we truncate this, it won't make much sense.
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
Not sure if this went through:
I came up with a CSS-only solution.
The message in English would be: '<strong>Editing</strong> <span>$1</span>' In Japanese: '<span>$1</span>を<strong>編集中</strong>'
Now the CSS (the message is inside a <h2>):
h2 { display: table; width: 100%;
> * { display: table-cell; // padding instead of spaces between words padding-right: .5em; }
strong { width: 1em; }
span { overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; // required for text-overflow to work max-width: 1em; } }
Comments?
Now, bonus question. The message is "'''Editing''' $1" now. Should I create a new key or just edit the English message?
On 12/11/2013 05:12 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
If you are in beta on mobile now, there's a new look for the editor. The heading of the editor now says "Editing [article name]" in English.
The problem is that designers want this to be always one line long at most and truncate it when it's longer. This is fine in English where "Editing" is at the beginning, not OK in some languages, e.g. Japanese:
http://tinyurl.com/qftpgy4 (click the pencil icon)
where "editing" ("編集中") is at the end. If we truncate this, it won't make much sense.
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
Are there technical reasons why using an ellipsis like "Long article name which will be trunca... editing" would not work?
I agree with the solution suggested by Andre. Truncating just the article title leaving room for the sentence to be complete seems a good solution since it informs on the action and provides as much context as the available room allows.
I guess that technically it may be more challenging to collapse the article title that the whole sentence, but if done properly the solution could be reused in many other places. Since article titles in sentences may be frequently appearing in our UI.
Some article titles can be really longhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Association_of_Marble,_Slate_and_Stone_Polishers,_Rubbers_and_Sawyers,_Tile_and_Marble_Setters%27_Helpers_and_Marble_Mosaic_and_Terrazzo_Workers%27_Helpers(even if they are a single wordhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lopado%C2%ADtemacho%C2%ADselacho%C2%ADgaleo%C2%ADkranio%C2%ADleipsano%C2%ADdrim%C2%ADhypo%C2%ADtrimmato%C2%ADsilphio%C2%ADparao%C2%ADmelito%C2%ADkatakechy%C2%ADmeno%C2%ADkichl%C2%ADepi%C2%ADkossypho%C2%ADphatto%C2%ADperister%C2%ADalektryon%C2%ADopte%C2%ADkephallio%C2%ADkigklo%C2%ADpeleio%C2%ADlagoio%C2%ADsiraio%C2%ADbaphe%C2%ADtragano%C2%ADpterygon), but part of the title is normally enough to give some context. Especially where (a) you are seeing part of the content itself, and (b) you can scroll up to get the full title (e.g., in case you work on many similar "list of countries with..." and has got disoriented at some point).
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Juliusz Gonera jgonera@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Not sure if this went through:
I came up with a CSS-only solution.
The message in English would be: '<strong>Editing</strong> <span>$1</span>' In Japanese: '<span>$1</span>を<strong>編集中</strong>'
Now the CSS (the message is inside a <h2>):
h2 { display: table; width: 100%;
> * { display: table-cell; // padding instead of spaces between words padding-right: .5em; } strong { width: 1em; } span { overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; // required for text-overflow to work max-width: 1em; }}
Comments?
Now, bonus question. The message is "'''Editing''' $1" now. Should I create a new key or just edit the English message?
On 12/11/2013 05:12 PM, Juliusz Gonera wrote:
If you are in beta on mobile now, there's a new look for the editor. The heading of the editor now says "Editing [article name]" in English.
The problem is that designers want this to be always one line long at most and truncate it when it's longer. This is fine in English where "Editing" is at the beginning, not OK in some languages, e.g. Japanese:
http://tinyurl.com/qftpgy4 (click the pencil icon)
where "editing" ("編集中") is at the end. If we truncate this, it won't make much sense.
Should I suggest in the message description that the translators should use such a grammatical construction so that the word "editing" stays at the beginning? That's what designers suggested.
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design