(I've CC'd the design-list, for all of these ideas. Design: please see the
earlier part of this thread (7 msgs) for more context, at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-December/079793.html)
On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Krinkle <krinklemail(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure we should implement collapsible sections for desktop.
>
> If built and instrumented, one may find that users use it a fair bit and
> it may be better-than-nothing as solution for certain use cases. But I
> don't think collapsible sections would be an adequate feature for those use
> cases.
>
> Our table of contents is in desperate need of improvement. Having that be
> more accessible throughout the reading experience would be a big step
> forward[1] (much like the Wikipedia iOS app). Having a proper TOC means
> users don't have to collapse/expand anything.
>
> This would allow users to have a birds eye view of the document at all
> times, jump to any section at any time, whilst still being able to scroll
> through the document top to bottom as one would expect.
>
> From a performance viewpoint (as opposed to usability) we can still do
> optimisations such as not loading images until a section is accessed
> (lazy-load).
>
> -- Krinkle
>
> [1] Different ideas around an "aside"-accessible table of contents:
> * http://underscorejs.org/
> * Wikipedia iOS App: http://i.imgur.com/Sg0pqsg.jpg
> * User manual: http://asciidoctor.org/docs/user-manual/
>
>
Re: Collapsible - I strongly agree that collapsing content is potentially
harmful, and should be avoided as much as possible. It increases the
effort required to see content, and thereby reduces the likelihood of any
given section being seen. This is bad for readers (harder to access
knowledge), and bad for editors/potential-editors (harder to spot
errors/vandalism during casual reading). It goes for article content as
well as navigational elements and metadata. Footer-navboxes are frequently
collapsed, and I think this has established a harmful precedent. (See also
[[Linus's Law]], "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". We need
more eyeballs, not less.)
Re: ToC improvements - Agreed. As always, the difficulty is with fitting it
in somewhere, given the diversity of screen/browser-window sizes that each
user has or prefers. It would be especially useful on long articles, but it
would also take up the most space there. I'm not sure where the most recent
brainstorming and notes are, regarding the standard mediawiki sidebar? I
know it's been discussed a *lot* over the years...
Re: "birds eye view" - I really like this idea, taken to the 'completism'
level...
A number of text/code editors, have a "minimap" attached to the side.
http://did2memo.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/minimap-in-sublime-text-2.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/OIhkpfA.pnghttp://notepad-plus-plus.org/assets/images/docMap.png
It works as an enhanced-scrollbar, and as an overview, and it shows
text-selections from ctrl-F.
I think something similar to this would potentially help us:
* To better understand the scope of an article/section/entry, upon first
loading the page.
* As editors, to find & refine wall-of-text paragraphs.
* Encourage light-readers to scroll more, particularly if they see
thumbnails of images - in the same way that good textbooks can use images
as content-hooks.
* more?
It would need Increased font size for headings, to enable ToC-like
functionality. And some sort of minimal-version, for users who find
animated-aspects too distracting. What else?
It might be too complicated to be a global default (UX-wise, and/or
Performance-wise), but I'd love to see something like this as an option
(toggle or preference or gadget).
HTH. --Quiddity
I don't know the answer to this question, but I do think it is a good one,
and I would be in favor of anyone making product decisions being encouraged
and given bandwidth to immerse themselves in the product they are making
decisions about in it's raw organic form, real active wikis.
I don't edit very much, mostly just on MediaWiki.org to document software.
I certainly feel like I would benefit a lot from editing more, and I don't
really have any good excuses why I don't. Perhaps I will try spending some
time editing while I'm on vacation.
- Trevor
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 5:27 PM, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I just spent a few minutes catching up on this mailing list. I noticed
> that Nirzar recently joined the design team. That thread seemed very
> strange to me. It didn't answer the most basic question: does he actively
> edit wikis? And if not, when will he be starting?
>
> This got me thinking about the larger issue. Are people actively editing
> the projects? I mean making new pages, fixing typos, updating templates,
> etc. on Wikipedia or Wikisource or Commons or another wiki? To me, it
> seems like it would be nearly impossible to design well for these projects
> without immersing yourself in them. There's so much left to be done, even
> on our largest projects such as the English Wikipedia, and I think we're
> failing at communicating this. I talk to people who feel Wikipedia is vast
> and finished(!), but they're completely wrong.
>
> I think good design is a key component to growing the projects, but I
> worry that more and more people are involved in name only. People should
> be actively editing and I'm not sure that they are. So I'm left wondering:
> are people actively editing? Do people try to reserve a day a week to
> editing? An edit a day? How do people get involved so that they can
> understand, protect, and enhance the projects?
>
> I should be in San Francisco in late January and I'm hoping to meet with
> some of you. Be assured that editing will be a topic of discussion. :-)
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Design mailing list
> Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
>
Hi.
I just spent a few minutes catching up on this mailing list. I noticed
that Nirzar recently joined the design team. That thread seemed very
strange to me. It didn't answer the most basic question: does he actively
edit wikis? And if not, when will he be starting?
This got me thinking about the larger issue. Are people actively editing
the projects? I mean making new pages, fixing typos, updating templates,
etc. on Wikipedia or Wikisource or Commons or another wiki? To me, it
seems like it would be nearly impossible to design well for these projects
without immersing yourself in them. There's so much left to be done, even
on our largest projects such as the English Wikipedia, and I think we're
failing at communicating this. I talk to people who feel Wikipedia is vast
and finished(!), but they're completely wrong.
I think good design is a key component to growing the projects, but I
worry that more and more people are involved in name only. People should
be actively editing and I'm not sure that they are. So I'm left wondering:
are people actively editing? Do people try to reserve a day a week to
editing? An edit a day? How do people get involved so that they can
understand, protect, and enhance the projects?
I should be in San Francisco in late January and I'm hoping to meet with
some of you. Be assured that editing will be a topic of discussion. :-)
MZMcBride
The Echo flyout has "Alerts (*NN*) · Messages (*NN*)" to switch between its
two "panes". Somehow there has been a regression:
a) They're both blue (T71929) so it's not clear which one you're viewing.
b) If the flyout shows only "Alerts" (because you're not involved with any
Flow boards) it's blue even though unclickable (T73733).
The Collaboration team needs to fix this soon.
The issue is whether Echo's flyout should move to the mediawiki.ui standard
for tabs, and what that is. The Trello card for this is
https://trello.com/c/F3SdIvRg/45-tabs-panes-panels . Mobile's Watchlist >
Modified uses both a button group and a set of tabs (see the Trello card's
attachment), there are pros and cons to each. Jared suggested using a
button group for [Alerts (*NN*) | Messages (*NN*)] , but the current CSS
for mediawiki.ui button group implementation doesn't seem to have the
notion of the active/selected button. If we add mw-ui-progressive to mark
the active button the way Mobile watchlist does, then the current
unclickable state looks like a button, so it's back-to-front.
I assigned Pau to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T71929 , but there's
seems a general UX standardization issue(s). I hope some guidelines come
out of this.
Thanks!
--
=S Page Collaboration team engineer
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:36 AM, Yuvi Panda <yuvipanda(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Yay! :) As someone who is a *big* fan of Cleartrip, awesome to see this! :)
+1
Yay!
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Abbey Ripstra <aripstra(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> Welcome, Nizar! I am looking forward to working with you.
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Jared Zimmerman <
> jared.zimmerman(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> Everyone,
>>
>> Its my great pleasure to welcome Nirzar Pangarkar to the User Experience
>> team. Nirzar joins us from Cleartrip[1], where he was integral in extending
>> their design team, and extending their product to new markets. While there
>> he was responsible for aspects of user experience, visual design, and front
>> end coding and prototyping both on their mobile application and desktop
>> site.
>>
>> Nirzar joins the Wikimedia Foundation as a User Experience Designer, and
>> will be working with the many teams throughout the organization on reader
>> engagement across platforms.
>>
>> In Nirzar’s time at Cleartrip, he worked on composing new design language
>> as well as new front-end architecture, which is serving more than a million
>> people per day. Later on, he took on the role of leading the design for
>> mobile products, making Cleartrip the market leader in mobile space.
>>
>> Nirzar has worked in online retail and with complex products in the
>> travel planning space. Nirzar will be functioning as an UX designer on the
>> team, however his visual design[2] and prototyping skills will be integral
>> to the continued success of our team and our projects.
>>
>> He is excited to be part of the Wikimedia Foundation’s mission. When he’s
>> not at work, Nirzar loves spending time with his dog[3]. He likes hiking
>> and taking pictures on weekends. He enjoys watching films and discussing
>> film making.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nirzar will be working remote from Bangalore starting December 1, and
>> relocating to SF most likely during Q3. He will be in SF during All Hands.
>>
>> [1] http://www.cleartrip.com/
>> [2] https://dribbble.com/nirzar
>> [3] https://500px.com/photo/76212081/dumb-as-a-post-by-nirzar-pangarkar
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jared Zimmerman * \\ Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia
>> Foundation
>> M +1 415 609 4043 \\ @jaredzimmerman <http://loo.ms/g0>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wmfall mailing list
>> Wmfall(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wmfall
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Abbey Ripstra*
> Lead Design Researcher \\ Wikimedia Foundation
> M +1 773 412 7463
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wmfall mailing list
> Wmfall(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wmfall
>
>
Everyone,
Its my great pleasure to welcome Nirzar Pangarkar to the User Experience
team. Nirzar joins us from Cleartrip[1], where he was integral in extending
their design team, and extending their product to new markets. While there
he was responsible for aspects of user experience, visual design, and front
end coding and prototyping both on their mobile application and desktop
site.
Nirzar joins the Wikimedia Foundation as a User Experience Designer, and
will be working with the many teams throughout the organization on reader
engagement across platforms.
In Nirzar’s time at Cleartrip, he worked on composing new design language
as well as new front-end architecture, which is serving more than a million
people per day. Later on, he took on the role of leading the design for
mobile products, making Cleartrip the market leader in mobile space.
Nirzar has worked in online retail and with complex products in the travel
planning space. Nirzar will be functioning as an UX designer on the team,
however his visual design[2] and prototyping skills will be integral to the
continued success of our team and our projects.
He is excited to be part of the Wikimedia Foundation’s mission. When he’s
not at work, Nirzar loves spending time with his dog[3]. He likes hiking
and taking pictures on weekends. He enjoys watching films and discussing
film making.
Nirzar will be working remote from Bangalore starting December 1, and
relocating to SF most likely during Q3. He will be in SF during All Hands.
[1] http://www.cleartrip.com/
[2] https://dribbble.com/nirzar
[3] https://500px.com/photo/76212081/dumb-as-a-post-by-nirzar-pangarkar
*Jared Zimmerman * \\ Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia Foundation
M +1 415 609 4043 \\ @jaredzimmerman <http://loo.ms/g0>
