We currently have a goal to push our nearby feature to stable next week.
Your feedback on the current page would thus be greatly appreciated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby
In particular please focus on these outstanding concerns remembering this is a first pass and we should focus on the most essential things: 1) Copy text - in particular is it clear that certain pages need photos and how to do that? 2) Refreshing the list of nearby results - is the icon choice correct and how is the user experience? 3) Is the preview useful? (the preview is mobile only and activated when you click on an article) - does the experience break without it? (to get an idea of how it might work without try the desktop version at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby or click "Read this article in full" before reading the preview and click back button to get back to the nearby view 4) Any styling tweaks you'd recommend (especially with respect to the article preview)?
Thanks for your feedback - all much appreciated!
Jon, *replies in-line*
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.org wrote:
We currently have a goal to push our nearby feature to stable next week.
Your feedback on the current page would thus be greatly appreciated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby
In particular please focus on these outstanding concerns remembering this is a first pass and we should focus on the most essential things:
- Copy text - in particular is it clear that certain pages need
photos and how to do that?
*Jared — in list view the call to action is clear, but perhaps too long? will this string length be a problem in german?* *how about "Contribute image for location"*
2) Refreshing the list of nearby results - is the icon choice correct
and how is the user experience?
* Jared — I think its ok, but could be improved, right now it just says "refresh" to me, not update my location, If May or I have some time today perhaps we can get you a new asset, when is you code submission target? * *
* * On first load of the page, the error, needs to have location enabled browser and javascript enabled still shows, it would be great to not show that on first load… *
- Is the preview useful? (the preview is mobile only and activated
when you click on an article) - does the experience break without it? (to get an idea of how it might work without try the desktop version at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby or click "Read this article in full" before reading the preview and click back button to get back to the nearby view
* Jared — The preview is ok but the image upload call to action isn't on it, which is a BIG problem for people who followed the link on the previous screen, few things that i think should change *
- * for pages with images, include the thumbnail from the list view on the preview page * - * For pages without images, include the contribute photo on the preview page *
- Any styling tweaks you'd recommend (especially with respect to the
article preview)?
* Jared — add Read article in full link to both the bottom and top of the preview, reduce the margins (to 0px?) for images on the preview page * *
* * Some feedback to the list page *
- * for imperial units countries use ft rather than m for distance to location * - * say "XX ft away" * - * make sure the row heights are the same, currently they fluctuate * - * for distance to location, can you say which direction they are? 150 ft north? if not "away" is fine, but giving a direction might be nice. *
* One way to increase confidence in the accuracy of the location would be to show the current location of the user on a map, here are two other apps for some inspiration of a mini map on top of a list view… http://cl.ly/P5cF & http://cl.ly/P6DF ** *
Thanks for your feedback - all much appreciated!
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Hi Jared - thanks for your feedback it is much welcomed!
So quite a few things have changed since this e-mail after adhoc conversations with Maryana. Apologies for not keeping you up to date I had assumed lack of interest ! :)
In terms of first load a bug was filed and fixed: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48525
The preview has changed to show the image and the first paragraph of text only: http://imgur.com/geumL98,oq414FD
Text has changed to more ambiguous "Needs photo". This was because since the page also works on desktop where there is no photo uploader this was confusion. http://imgur.com/geumL98,oq414FD#1
In terms of the refresh icon it depends if we want to push nearby to stable tomorrow or next week and polish it some more - that call is up to Howie. The refresh icon like we use it seems to be a design pattern - it is used in Foursquare for example to refresh the places you can check into so I'm not sure it is that confusing but designers please prove to me otherwise and suggest a better one :)
In terms of imperial units we have talked about this and don't think we should block on this. We imagine in future it would be trivial to have a site wide user preference to control this but this is a fair chunk of work.
Direction sounds like an interesting feature. We've talked about integrating with native apps like Google Maps to help people navigate to places. Again this is something we decided to not block on and add later.
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Jon, *replies in-line*
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.org wrote:
We currently have a goal to push our nearby feature to stable next week.
Your feedback on the current page would thus be greatly appreciated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby
In particular please focus on these outstanding concerns remembering this is a first pass and we should focus on the most essential things:
- Copy text - in particular is it clear that certain pages need
photos and how to do that?
*Jared — in list view the call to action is clear, but perhaps too long? will this string length be a problem in german?* *how about "Contribute image for location"*
- Refreshing the list of nearby results - is the icon choice correct
and how is the user experience?
Jared — I think its ok, but could be improved, right now it just says "refresh" to me, not update my location, If May or I have some time today perhaps we can get you a new asset, when is you code submission target?
On first load of the page, the error, needs to have location enabled browser and javascript enabled still shows, it would be great to not show that on first load…
- Is the preview useful? (the preview is mobile only and activated
when you click on an article) - does the experience break without it? (to get an idea of how it might work without try the desktop version at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby or click "Read this article in full" before reading the preview and click back button to get back to the nearby view
Jared — The preview is ok but the image upload call to action isn't on it, which is a BIG problem for people who followed the link on the previous screen, few things that i think should change
for pages with images, include the thumbnail from the list view on the preview page
For pages without images, include the contribute photo on the preview page
- Any styling tweaks you'd recommend (especially with respect to the
article preview)?
Jared — add Read article in full link to both the bottom and top of the preview, reduce the margins (to 0px?) for images on the preview page
Some feedback to the list page
for imperial units countries use ft rather than m for distance to location
say "XX ft away"
make sure the row heights are the same, currently they fluctuate
for distance to location, can you say which direction they are? 150 ft north? if not "away" is fine, but giving a direction might be nice.
One way to increase confidence in the accuracy of the location would be to show the current location of the user on a map, here are two other apps for some inspiration of a mini map on top of a list view… http://cl.ly/P5cF & http://cl.ly/P6DF **
Thanks for your feedback - all much appreciated!
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
My replies inline.
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.org wrote:
We currently have a goal to push our nearby feature to stable next week.
Your feedback on the current page would thus be greatly appreciated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby
In particular please focus on these outstanding concerns remembering this is a first pass and we should focus on the most essential things:
- Copy text - in particular is it clear that certain pages need
photos and how to do that?
*Jared — in list view the call to action is clear, but perhaps too long? will this string length be a problem in german?* *how about "Contribute image for location"*
All-caps can also be a legibility issue; the Germans in particular have complained about forced casing before. :)
- Refreshing the list of nearby results - is the icon choice correct
and how is the user experience?
Jared — I think its ok, but could be improved, right now it just says "refresh" to me, not update my location, If May or I have some time today perhaps we can get you a new asset, when is you code submission target?
It's also low-resolution and is noticeably pixely.
On first load of the page, the error, needs to have location enabled browser and javascript enabled still shows, it would be great to not show that on first load…
- Is the preview useful? (the preview is mobile only and activated
when you click on an article) - does the experience break without it? (to get an idea of how it might work without try the desktop version at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby or click "Read this article in full" before reading the preview and click back button to get back to the nearby view
Jared — The preview is ok but the image upload call to action isn't on it, which is a BIG problem for people who followed the link on the previous screen, few things that i think should change
for pages with images, include the thumbnail from the list view on the preview page
For pages without images, include the contribute photo on the preview page
(Note that the preview doesn't appear to show in stable, but I see it in
beta.)
I really don't like the preview. It breaks the browser's "back" button, it doesn't match regular navigation, and as noted it removes the add-photo CTA so the click-through is extra confusing.
- Any styling tweaks you'd recommend (especially with respect to the
article preview)?
Jared — add Read article in full link to both the bottom and top of the preview, reduce the margins (to 0px?) for images on the preview page
Some feedback to the list page
for imperial units countries use ft rather than m for distance to location
say "XX ft away"
We can possibly guess measurement defaults from the browser's reported
locale... hmm. Personally I prefer to force metrification on people. ;)
make sure the row heights are the same, currently they fluctuate
Variation appears to be due to line wrapping of long titles. Note that titles can be much longer than that... may make sense to force to single line and crop with ellipsis or fadeout, then let the full title show when you tap through.
for distance to location, can you say which direction they are? 150 ft north? if not "away" is fine, but giving a direction might be nice.
One way to increase confidence in the accuracy of the location would be to show the current location of the user on a map, here are two other apps for some inspiration of a mini map on top of a list view… http://cl.ly/P5cF & http://cl.ly/P6DF*
I like the idea of having a map view... what's our status on OpenStreetMap servers again? :P
-- brion
*Replies in-line and update location refresh icons attached. *
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.orgwrote:
My replies inline.
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.orgwrote:
We currently have a goal to push our nearby feature to stable next week.
Your feedback on the current page would thus be greatly appreciated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby
In particular please focus on these outstanding concerns remembering this is a first pass and we should focus on the most essential things:
- Copy text - in particular is it clear that certain pages need
photos and how to do that?
*Jared — in list view the call to action is clear, but perhaps too long? will this string length be a problem in german?* *how about "Contribute image for location"*
All-caps can also be a legibility issue; the Germans in particular have complained about forced casing before. :)
* Jared — Yes i personally take offense at all caps in UI, especially if its not part of a short title, i don't like being yelled at. *
- Refreshing the list of nearby results - is the icon choice correct
and how is the user experience?
Jared — I think its ok, but could be improved, right now it just says "refresh" to me, not update my location, If May or I have some time today perhaps we can get you a new asset, when is you code submission target?
It's also low-resolution and is noticeably pixely.
* Jared — Updated assets attached. *
On first load of the page, the error, needs to have location enabled browser and javascript enabled still shows, it would be great to not show that on first load…
- Is the preview useful? (the preview is mobile only and activated
when you click on an article) - does the experience break without it? (to get an idea of how it might work without try the desktop version at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby or click "Read this article in full" before reading the preview and click back button to get back to the nearby view
Jared — The preview is ok but the image upload call to action isn't on it, which is a BIG problem for people who followed the link on the previous screen, few things that i think should change
for pages with images, include the thumbnail from the list view on the preview page
For pages without images, include the contribute photo on the preview page
(Note that the preview doesn't appear to show in stable, but I see it in
beta.)
I really don't like the preview. It breaks the browser's "back" button, it doesn't match regular navigation, and as noted it removes the add-photo CTA so the click-through is extra confusing.
- Any styling tweaks you'd recommend (especially with respect to the
article preview)?
Jared — add Read article in full link to both the bottom and top of the preview, reduce the margins (to 0px?) for images on the preview page
Some feedback to the list page
for imperial units countries use ft rather than m for distance to location
say "XX ft away"
We can possibly guess measurement defaults from the browser's reported
locale... hmm. Personally I prefer to force metrification on people. ;)
* * * Jared — While I agree we should all switch to metric, i don't think its a reasonable request of most of our users. *
make sure the row heights are the same, currently they fluctuate
Variation appears to be due to line wrapping of long titles. Note that titles can be much longer than that... may make sense to force to single line and crop with ellipsis or fadeout, then let the full title show when you tap through.
* Jared — I'd go with a fade out, eliding, always seems like a waste of characters to me. *
for distance to location, can you say which direction they are? 150 ft north? if not "away" is fine, but giving a direction might be nice.
One way to increase confidence in the accuracy of the location would be to show the current location of the user on a map, here are two other apps for some inspiration of a mini map on top of a list view… http://cl.ly/P5cF & http://cl.ly/P6DF*
I like the idea of having a map view... what's our status on OpenStreetMap servers again? :P
-- brion
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
After talking with Howie it seems like we are going to delay the launch by a week. Howie would it be possible to get Jared into these talks?
Some replies to the discussion points:
* I like the new assets. One advantage of the existing asset however is that in can be animated (and is animated in beta) e.g. it spins when you click it. Would losing this be a big deal? How would we give user feedback when they have clicked it - would an ajax loader be suitable or a flashing icon/other?
The reason for the ALL CAPITALS LETTERS was due to the styling for the last modified time (see the watchlist page)- Vibha will be able to provide background on the reason for using ALL CAPS there
"* Jared — I'd go with a fade out, eliding, always seems like a waste of characters to me. * "
In terms of long titles we must bear in mind that some mobile devices get extremely small and that this has accessibility implications on mobile. CSS in modern browsers makes this very easy ( http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/truncate-string-with-ellipsis/)
Imagine if an article like this got truncated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_and_their...
The latter part of the title is very important. If this shows as "List of countries and depen..." well...? The preview helps somewhat - but only for modern devices (we don't run javascript on older ones). Maybe we could use the preview and truncation for phones that are capable?
"I really don't like the preview. It breaks the browser's "back" button, it doesn't match regular navigation, and as noted it removes the add-photo CTA so the click-through is extra confusing."
Brion: I wouldn't use this as a reason. We are already thinking about making overlays work with back button. This is likely only to be a temporary problem. The add photo CTA also only shows when 1) a browser is capable of uploading photos 2) the user is logged in 3) the user is allowed to upload 4) the page is not protected (and a variety of other constraints I'm forgetting). So removing the add photo CTA as an argument against doesn't hold much weight to me. FWIW I also think it's a good feature. If a user doesn't want to visit the article I don't think they are going to upload a good image to it as they won't have read the article in full and understand the needs of an article. If they are content with the summary they are likely to be in a rush and again not upload a useful image.
What is more important to me is the user experience given by the preview - it is much snappier using one and feels more like a native app - the user can browse various articles around them easily before diving into more detail. Clicking back also forces a refresh of the entire page with a potentially new location if the user has moved. It doesn't lend itself well to exploring a local area from a moving train. Try using nearby on your phone with 3G as it currently is on stable without the preview and you'll see what I mean. (There's also no reason in future why we cannot add the upload CTA to the preview as well.)
Measurements in feet - I believe we will need to do this at some point in the future but I don't think it should block a useful feature from moving to stable. We've already had requests for it and should prioritize it appropriately. Getting editing in mobile for instance is much more important than this development...
Thanks again for all the feedback so far!
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org> wrote:
*Replies in-line and update location refresh icons attached. *
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.orgwrote:
My replies inline.
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.orgwrote:
We currently have a goal to push our nearby feature to stable next week.
Your feedback on the current page would thus be greatly appreciated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby
In particular please focus on these outstanding concerns remembering this is a first pass and we should focus on the most essential things:
- Copy text - in particular is it clear that certain pages need
photos and how to do that?
*Jared — in list view the call to action is clear, but perhaps too long? will this string length be a problem in german?* *how about "Contribute image for location"*
All-caps can also be a legibility issue; the Germans in particular have complained about forced casing before. :)
Jared — Yes i personally take offense at all caps in UI, especially if its not part of a short title, i don't like being yelled at.
- Refreshing the list of nearby results - is the icon choice correct
and how is the user experience?
Jared — I think its ok, but could be improved, right now it just says "refresh" to me, not update my location, If May or I have some time today perhaps we can get you a new asset, when is you code submission target?
It's also low-resolution and is noticeably pixely.
Jared — Updated assets attached.
On first load of the page, the error, needs to have location enabled browser and javascript enabled still shows, it would be great to not show that on first load…
- Is the preview useful? (the preview is mobile only and activated
when you click on an article) - does the experience break without it? (to get an idea of how it might work without try the desktop version at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby or click "Read this article in full" before reading the preview and click back button to get back to the nearby view
Jared — The preview is ok but the image upload call to action isn't on it, which is a BIG problem for people who followed the link on the previous screen, few things that i think should change
for pages with images, include the thumbnail from the list view on the preview page
For pages without images, include the contribute photo on the preview page
(Note that the preview doesn't appear to show in stable, but I see it in
beta.)
I really don't like the preview. It breaks the browser's "back" button, it doesn't match regular navigation, and as noted it removes the add-photo CTA so the click-through is extra confusing.
- Any styling tweaks you'd recommend (especially with respect to the
article preview)?
Jared — add Read article in full link to both the bottom and top of the preview, reduce the margins (to 0px?) for images on the preview page
Some feedback to the list page
for imperial units countries use ft rather than m for distance to location
say "XX ft away"
We can possibly guess measurement defaults from the browser's reported
locale... hmm. Personally I prefer to force metrification on people. ;)
Jared — While I agree we should all switch to metric, i don't think its a reasonable request of most of our users.
make sure the row heights are the same, currently they fluctuate
Variation appears to be due to line wrapping of long titles. Note that titles can be much longer than that... may make sense to force to single line and crop with ellipsis or fadeout, then let the full title show when you tap through.
Jared — I'd go with a fade out, eliding, always seems like a waste of characters to me.
for distance to location, can you say which direction they are? 150 ft north? if not "away" is fine, but giving a direction might be nice.
One way to increase confidence in the accuracy of the location would be to show the current location of the user on a map, here are two other apps for some inspiration of a mini map on top of a list view… http://cl.ly/P5cF & http://cl.ly/P6DF*
I like the idea of having a map view... what's our status on OpenStreetMap servers again? :P
-- brion
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
I haven't read through this entire thread, but will set up a time tomorrow/Wed for Jon, Vibha, Jared, and me to discuss this topic.
Howie
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.org wrote:
After talking with Howie it seems like we are going to delay the launch by a week. Howie would it be possible to get Jared into these talks?
Just wanted to comment that my my concern is that the preview is presented as a separate place from the list. That may make the user to expect the full article or not realising at first that it is a preview.
If it could be presented in a way that the preview is more connected to the list either visually or using a transition it could help. An example of transition that could work in this context from this articlehttps://medium.com/design-ux/926eb80d64e3 is shown below:
Pau
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Howie Fung hfung@wikimedia.org wrote:
I haven't read through this entire thread, but will set up a time tomorrow/Wed for Jon, Vibha, Jared, and me to discuss this topic.
Howie
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Jon Robson jrobson@wikimedia.org wrote:
After talking with Howie it seems like we are going to delay the launch by a week. Howie would it be possible to get Jared into these talks?
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
