On 26 Nov 2008, at 19:29, phoebe ayers wrote:
Most probably, most users who type in "Ireland" are looking for the article about the Republic of Ireland. However, we can't escape the fact that the term Ireland is ambiguous. Some users would be unaware that six of the 32 Irish counties are not currently part of the Republic.
I would actually argue that a reader who doesn't know anything about Ireland (picture a schoolchild in the US doing a project for St. Patrick's day)
I don't think Ireland is all that obscure.
... would be expecting to get exactly the article that is currently located at "Ireland".
I tend to think that we should aim the bar a bit higher.
Both the current Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland articles are heavily focussed on the historical and political situation, and not the kind of comprehensive overview that is currently at "Ireland."
Much that is at the "Ireland" article shouldn't be there, as it belongs either to "Ireland (state)" or "Northern Ireland". Compare the article at "Great Britain" (the name of the island next to Ireland). That's why it's proposed that "Ireland" be a disambiguation page.
What if I don't even know there are two countries on the island, let alone which one is which?
That's what the disambiguation page is for.
It's pretty confusing to be sent to a disambiguation page when I'm just trying to look up something that is a pretty basic geographical topic.
We do it all the time. See "Georgia". Or "Macedonia".
Would just moving Republic of Ireland to [[Ireland (state)]] and leaving the rest alone be acceptable?
I don't think that goes far enough.
The latter title would avoid any unfortunate political connotations as it's a straight disambiguation title, but would still leave the background article at the main title.
As I say we've identified problems with the main title vis à vis "Great Britain". But we can't make the needed edits (with confidence) without "Ireland (island)".
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com