this, please state it.
I already did. I agree, but it's completely inappropriate for anyone to have
the moralistic pretension to assume that anyone who doesn't want to discuss
it on the mailing list is a naysayer. IMO, part of the thing that's screwed
up about the community is this mailing list. So naturally, it makes sense to
me that other wouldn't want to discuss it here.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>
wrote:
on 3/5/08 7:59 PM, Steven Walling at
steven.walling(a)gmail.com wrote:
Don't be arrogant.
Are you in the habit of accessing other people's behavior, and telling
them
what, and what not, to be?
The reason someone responded that way is because
they are tired of
talking in
circles about the general problem with the community
Are you accessing another person's response here, or just not saying it's
you own?
not necessarily because they have their head's
in the sand.
"...in the sand" wasn't exactly the location I had in mind.
The question is, is the Community screwed up? If you have an opinion on
this, please state it.
Marc
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net
wrote:
> on 3/5/08 7:00 PM, SlimVirgin at slimvirgin(a)gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Erik Möller wrote in another thread:
>>
>> "[T]he real substance here is the destructiveness on the margins of
>> our own community; that is what we must address. Wikimedia has
>> cultivated a tolerance for open hostility. If we see ourselves as a
>> community with a shared purpose, let's start acting like one. That
>> doesn't mean blindly following the leader - I have had my fair share
>> of arguments with Jimmy over the years - but it does mean rejecting
>> the destructive, malicious behavior that we have seen in recent days."
>>
>> Erik is right. What is happening to the community is the real issue.
>> Even when I joined Wikipedia as a relative latecomer in 2004, the
>> sense of community and shared purpose was still palpable. People fell
>> out, of course, and made mistakes, but AGF wasn't an empty gesture or
>> a rule we blindly followed. We assumed good faith because we were all
>> here to give of our time, without payment or any benefit other than a
>> feeling of satisfaction, to produce something that might help to
>> educate and enlighten other people. In exchange, we hoped that others
>> would educate and enlighten us. It was the most inspiring idea I'd
>> ever come across, that people all over the world could unite to
>> benefit each other in that way.
>>
>> But suddenly Wikipedia became very popular, and there was more money
>> than before, and people started jockeying for position, and now we're
>> tearing each other apart.
>>
>> Everyone involved in this, no matter how right they feel they are, has
>> to somehow muster the strength and courage to put their individual
>> interests to one side and focus on the project, because it really is a
>> wonderful, unique, awe-inspiring thing we're involved in here. I
>> think we forget this because we see it from the inside. We get jaded.
>>
>> The question for good people on all sides is: what can we do now to
>> help save and protect this community and its ideals?
>>
>> Sarah
>>
> Sarah,
>
> I have been asking this same question for over two years now. In fact I
> touched on the subject in a post to one of the WP Lists just yesterday,
> and
> the response I got from a very frequent poster was: "Is this going to
be
> another lecture on how the Project is
failing? If so, I'm not
interested".
> The denial is strong - and deadly.
>
> To take from my "Thought for the Day" on The WikBack:
>
> You cannot teach - they who will not be taught. You cannot help - they
who
will not
be helped.
Marc
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