On 6/18/07, Gracenotes wikigracenotes@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/18/07, Slim Virgin slimvirgin@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/18/07, Gracenotes wikigracenotes@gmail.com wrote:
Far more good has come out of the "no big deal" idea. Let's not let a couple of bad apples spoil the atmosphere that makes Wikipedia fun to work in. Yes, they happen to be influential apples, but there are other solutions to this problem than crushing the attitude that has brought Wikipedia so much good.
Consider the attitude we're supposed to hold about blocking people. It's preventative, right? In theory, at least. However, blocking almost always has a punitive effect, even though we are told to ignore that aspect and only consider it a preventative tool. Same with the "no big deal" attitude. Often, admins can make waves with controversial deletions, discussion closings, and blockings; that's true. But "no big deal" is the best system we have.
You have to *show* how that's the case, not just keep saying it.
You remind me of my English teacher, who took off points from my paper because I made an "unasserted statement" in the introduction. There is a point to introductions, I'll tell ya... ;)
Suppose that blocking was considered punitive. Then we would have to determine how long a vandal should sit in a corner until he learns his lesson, or examine how many personal attacks an edit warrior made. But thankfully, that's not the case.
Of course it's the case. That's exactly what currently happens every day. The "blocking is never punitive" mantra is another piece of pure ideology similar to "adminship is no big deal." Both are prescriptive, not descriptive.
Yes, of course any block can be actually considered punitive in retrospect. But it is incorrect to view nlocks as punitive while making them.
There you go again: assertions with no evidence. It's a demonstrable fact that many non-vandalism blocks, and possibly most, are punitive, whatever happier word we prefer to describe them as. Spend a day checking out the block log and you'll see it for yourself. The argument goes that punishment is part of prevention, and that's true to an extent, but it doesn't make the blocks any less punitive.
Prescription is not all bad if it makes human beings behave in a way that is kinder (AGF), more respectful (CIV), and more conducive to making a free content encyclopedia.
Prescription is bad when it's based on unrealistic ideological baggage that gets in the way of common sense.