On 7/27/06, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
I have not proposed an expert based solution. This is a role which practically any established Wikipedian would be qualified for.
Then I misunderstood your proposal. What would this role be advertised as? Wouldn't candidates who are experts in copyright law be favored for it, naturally? If not, wouldn't there be a great risk that the exceptions made by a single person or small group are actually in violation of the law?
It's not clear that the facts support your position. Perhaps on dewiki? Experimentation on Enwiki has demonstrated that the majority of the participants in at least some of our voting process do not read evidence presented preceding or included in the debate (measured by placing external links in intros and in individual votes). Instead it would appear that many voters make their decision based on initial impression and a passing glance at the standing votes.
I have not seen many votes or polls where the vote was conducted according to a defined process, where the arguments have to be fully and carefully summarized long before any voting begins. Rather, in most cases, it seems to be a mixed process of voting and arguing, where arguments often have a hard time reaching visibility, and early voters ignore later arguments -- making the results difficult to interpret.
It seems more sensible to split the process into first arguing and then, if no consensus can be found, voting. Then you also avoid the headcount on processes like AfD and instead have it as a pure discussion, with a vote only when necessary.
Take a look at the polls and surveys in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Current_surveys where, at best, you will find a brief intro summarizing the _issue_, but hardly ever a summary of the arguments for and against each position. Most of these polls are started in moments of frustration, with little planning and inconsistent prerequisites.
While it may be true that acceptable results can be achieved through good votes, where the participants consist of informed parties, it is not clear if such votes ever actually happen on enwiki.
That seems to be a matter of defining policy in such a way that only good (i.e. well-organized) votes are allowed to go through. The de.wiki Meinungsbilder do indeed seem to be more well thought-out in this regard: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder
Take this example: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/Unver%C3%B6ffentlichte...
It's about whether unpublished movies should have articles. Note the extensive background information provided, the clearly defined voting criteria, the rules on (re)moving votes, and the summaries of each proposal. It still has room for improvement, but is pretty close to what I'm thinking of. This kind of process can be followed both on a small and a large scale -- depending on the complexity of the problem.
I'm not sure if you're aware of [[Dunbar's number]]....
Dunbar's number is the exact reason I propose voting and summarizing/refactoring as a last resort in large scale decision-making. Note that both arguments and votes can be anonymized.
I believe that without the control feedback of a functioning social group our users are too unwilling to engage in the mixture of compromise and consideration which are required to have a 'good vote' and instead their behavior appears to be determined more by a desire to assert their authority (by fighting against something rather than working with it).
That's why trying to work out a mutually agreeable solution in a social group should always precede a vote. When the group gets too large and factions form, a vote may be the best way to find acquiescence to a particular solution.
Erik