On 10/26/05, Anthony DiPierro <wikispam(a)inbox.org> wrote:
On 10/26/05, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
On 10/26/05, geni <geniice at
gmail.com
<http://gmail.com>> wrote:
> On 10/26/05, Anthony DiPierro <wikispam at
inbox.org <http://inbox.org>>
wrote:
> > If an actual no-foolin' expert
dissents, then there isn't consensus
in the
> > first place.
> And if an actual no-foolin' expert
supports the consensus?
Supports what consensus? I just said, if people
can't come to a general
agreement, then there *is* no consensus. You seem to be mistaking
majority
with consensus.
"Consensus" is AFD jargon for "66% delete votes, for any reason or
none." Really. It is.
I know, but that doesn't mean I have to accept such newspeak. I can accept
the process (not sure I do yet), but I'll never accept the redefinition of
the word, and, especially when it's thrown around like this on the mailing
list, I'll occassionally point out the fact that the VFD process as
implemented has nothing to do with consensus.
Unfortunately, you must accept such newspeak if you're not the closing
admin. You also must if your "keep" close of an AfD with 66% or more
delete votes doesn't satisfactorily explain your reasoning to the 66%.
Further, try getting anything undeleted and you'll see that no matter
what the arguments are, you'll find at least one user voting "KD,
valid Afd" if there were 66% or more votes because for them, it's the
process that matters. This is the very same process that defines
"consensus" as 66%.
And since recreation of a deleted article is speedy-deletable, you
must accept this silly newspeak in the particular venue of Wikipedia,
if your article on an obscure topic has had the misfortune of catching
the attention of someone who doesn't agree with your POV regarding
notability.
Somewhere along the way, the deletion forums have effectively
redefined the term "consensus" for the purposes of deletion.
I hope that the redefinition can be rubbed out, however, most
proposals regarding deletion reform seem to take the flavor of "how
can we make this deletion process stronger" rather than the more
humble admission that true consensus actually requires the consent of
the minorty.
--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused