On Wed, 2003-05-07 at 13:11, Tony Wilson wrote:
Cunc asked:
instead of speaking in generalities, we discuss specifics? What are the specific edits and statements that Fred has made that you have found objectionable? Links would be appreciated.
Huh? Well, maybe you were out of town or something. This has already been detailed in previous posts to this list, and is obvious from a glance at the edit histories in any case.
Start with: http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-April/002903.html Then see the bland admission of guilt without the faintest attempt at an apology at: http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-April/002905.html
Follow it up with choice little words of Wikilove like these: "Their activity is no different from those who think they can deny the holocaust." You'll find that one at: http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-May/003068.html
For that long string of major changes over a period of several days, all dishonestly marked as minor, and despite repeated requests to Fred that he desist see: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Communist_state&action=histo...
Hmm. I still don't see it. The mailing list posts just seem to be both you and Fred engaging in slightly heated rhetoric. Nothing exciting there.
Just pointing to the history of [[Communist state]] I see a lot of YELLING by Jtdirl and Jtdirl attacking Fred's edits as "rubbish", "vandalism", and "rant".
Looking at Fred's second edit, the first that Jtdirl described as "POV vandalism"
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Communist_state&oldid=859844
I don't see anything that's absurd. Jtdirl deleted the following text, which seems pretty defensible at first glance and certainly not "vandalism".
Typically a communist state is characterized by grinding [[poverty]], a bloated [[bureaucracy]], diversion of resources into [[military]] assets, a general loss of [[morale]] by the general population, and [[political stability|instability]] marked by periodic [[rebellion]]s which are brutally repressed. A communist state is characterized by the sharp division of the population into two castes, party members and the rest of the population. A small group, the [[politbureau]], typically consisting of less than 10 people, sometimes only 1, within the party hold any real power or have access to accurate information. A large [[secret police]] apparatus closely monitors the population. [[Concentration camp]]s and other facilities are used to incarcerate those dissidents which are not liquidated.
There have been two major communist states, The [[Soviet Union]] and its satellites and the [[People's Republic of China]]. Minor states include [[Yugoslavia]], [[Cuba]], [[Viet Nam]] and [[North Korea]]. The pattern varies in each with those clinging most closely to communist ideals being most characteristically totalitarian, impoverished, militaristic, and static. Attempts to incorporate [[democracy|democratic]] principles as in the case of the Soviet Union under Gorbachev, [[socialism|socialist]] principles as in Yugoslavia,or [[capitalism|capitalistic]] techniques as in China result in some mitigation of the negative features of the communist state but sometimes result in dynamic situations which may undermine the control of the party over the state or even lead to its collapse.