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Hell, '''Wikipedia''' is authoritarian under the Bauder definition! One person, Jimbo, has the power to issue edicts (and edits, for that matter) binding upon all users of his system. There is a hierarchical (hierarchal?) structure of privileges, and official canon (NPOV), and if you deviate from the canon, you are excommunicat- er, banned!
Stan Shebs wrote: | You'll have to do better than that! - your description applies equally | well to the United States government, and to both the Green Party | and Libertarian Party. And therein lies the problem with attempts | to say a government is or is not authoritarian, communist, or | whatever - those kinds of terms are editorial assessments of a | pattern of objectively observed behavior. Even if 99% of people | believe the assessment, the only truly NPOV thing you can say is | "99% of observers believe the government to be authoritarian". | | Stan | | Fred Bauder wrote: | |> No, the Roman Catholic church is authoritarian in different ways, for |> example, one person, the Pope, has the power to issue edits binding |> upon all |> catholics. There is a hierarchal structure, an official canon, and |> discipline applied to those within the hierachy who deviate from the |> canon. |> All goes to show that if you change the subject, you change the |> question and |> the answer. |> |> Fred |> |> |>> From: Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.org |>> Organization: Boskonia |>> Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |>> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:06:19 -0700 |>> To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |>> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Classification of China? |>> |>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |>> Hash: SHA1 |>> |>> And the Catholic Church (for another example you used of an present-day |>> authoritarian organization) does any of these things? I can (I have) |>> written letters extremely critical of Cardinal Mahoney that were |>> published -- without interference -- in the free press. Should I fear |>> the Spanish Inquisition? |>> |>> Methinks your definition of "authoritarian organization" is remarkably |>> broad if it lumps the Catholic Church in with the Butchers of Beijing. |>> |>> It makes me wonder how fluid your definition of "truth" is. |>> |>> |>> |>> Fred Bauder wrote: |>> | The criteria are control of the press, repression of political speech, |>> | imprisonment of those who atempt to organize an opposing political |>> party or |>> | a union, etc. |>> | |>> | Fred |>> | |>> | |>> |>From: Vicki Rosenzweig vr@redbird.org |>> |>Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |>> |>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:31:58 -0400 |>> |>To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |>> |>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Classification of China? |>> |> |>> |>At 05:16 PM 4/25/03 -0600, Fred Bauder wrote: |>> |> |>> |>>I intend to speak truth. China (and the Catholic church, for another |>> |>>example) are authoritarian. \ It is not merely a matter of the |>> opinion of |>> |>>vague critics. There are objective criteria which if met |>> constitute an |>> |>>authoritarian government. |>> |> |>> |>This concerns me, not because I disagree, but because I don't know |>> |>what objective criteria Fred is using, and because almost anyone who |>> |>promotes a point of view sincerely believes that he or she is speaking |>> |>truth. |>> |> |>> |>The determination to speak truth, while admirable, is not the same as |>> |>NPOV, which is our policy. |>> |> |>> |> |>> |> |>> |>>Fred |>> |>> |>> |>> |>> |>>>From: Daniel Ehrenberg littledanehren@yahoo.com |>> |>>>Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |>> |>>>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:32:01 -0700 (PDT) |>> |>>>To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |>> |>>>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Classification of China? |>> |>>> |>> |>>>You can't just say "China is an evil totalitarian |>> |>>>country" (I know that's not what you said) or even |>> |>>>"China is a controlling country" because that's an |>> |>>>opinion, not a fact. The communist party in China |>> |>>>might think "We're not controlling or authoritarian, |>> |>>>we just want the best for our citizens", which makes |>> |>>>the comment POV. You could say (in a later |>> |>>>paragraph), "China is critisized for being |>> |>>>[[authoritarianism and |>> |>>>totalitarianism|authoritarianist]]. |>> |>>> |>> |>>>--- Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote: |>> |>>> |>> |>>> |>> |>>>>I stirred up this hornet's nest by inserting a link |>> |>>>>to [[authoritarianism |>> |>>>>and totalitarianism|authoritarian]] into the first |>> |>>>>paragraph of the article. |>> |>>>>I think this is a fair characterization of the |>> |>>>>regime (regardless of what |>> |>>>>ever other adjective might describe it). |>> |> |>> |>-- |>> |>Vicki Rosenzweig |>> |>vr@redbird.org |>> |>http://www.redbird.org |>> |> |>> |>_______________________________________________ |>> |>WikiEN-l mailing list |>> |>WikiEN-l@wikipedia.org |>> |>http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |>> | |>> | |>> | _______________________________________________ |>> | WikiEN-l mailing list |>> | WikiEN-l@wikipedia.org |>> | http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |>> |>> |>> - -- |>> ~ Sean Barrett | John and Mary had never met. They were like |>> ~ sean@epoptic.com | two hummingbirds who had also never met. |>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- |>> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) |>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org |>> |>> iD8DBQE+qc16v/8xpnvE6M8RAgzSAJwIu7RjTPanefl1Dhj2tpYHIVDL+QCbBPQg |>> 38nIk0sB52iPC06Fw/0onlk= |>> =ErzZ |>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- -- ~ Sean Barrett | John and Mary had never met. They were like ~ sean@epoptic.com | two hummingbirds who had also never met.