Will be there. --Guerillero On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote: 529 _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l

It's entirely unclear to me why we're proposing to make such dramatic political concessions, particularly given the lack of any meaningful external pressure to do so. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Kevin Rutherford <Ktr101(a)hotmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l

The idea that all US chapters would have only a single voice in movement-wide discussions. This hasn't been demanded except by tiny minority among other chapters -- and certainly not by anyone who will actually be involved in recognizing future US chapters. As far as I'm concerned, that element makes this proposal a total non-starter. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Mr. Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l

Sweden doesn't have multiple chapters -- there's only Wikimedia Sverige. The only other country that *does* have multiple chapters is China, which has Wikimedia Hong Kong and Wikimedia Macau -- and both of those chapters have independent votes. As far as whether we "deserve" more votes, that's a subjective question. I will point out that, once every country gets a chapter, Europe (with a population of ~700 million) will have 50 votes -- while, under your proposal, the United States (with a population of ~300 million) will have 1. Personally, I don't think that's particularly fair either. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Mr. Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l

The idea that all US chapters would have only a single voice in movement-wide discussions. This hasn't been demanded except by tiny minority among other chapters -- and certainly not by anyone who will actually be involved in recognizing future US chapters. As far as I'm concerned, that element makes this proposal a total non-starter. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Mr. Gregory Varnum < gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Which political concessions are you referring to? -Greg ____________ Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for any typos. A more detailed response may be sent later. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Kirill Lokshin < kirill.lokshin(a)wikimediadc.org&gt; wrote: It's entirely unclear to me why we're proposing to make such dramatic political concessions, particularly given the lack of any meaningful external pressure to do so. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Kevin Rutherford &lt;Ktr101(a)hotmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: Hey Everyone, I hope that you have all been doing well and those who attended Wikimania have not been partying too hard after the awesome experiences of the last few days. I wanted to let you all know, that per a WALRUS meet-up discussion tonight, myself and two other users have drafted up a plan on the evolution and governance of future Wikimedia chapters: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_the_evolution_of_Wikimedia_chap… We look forward to your opinion on it, and I hope that those who are in the D.C. region have safe trips back, over the next few days. Sincerely, Kevin Rutherford Ktr101 _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l

I think Damian makes a fair point - and he is not the only member of ChapCom I've heard this from. -Greg ____________ Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for any typos. A more detailed response may be sent later. On Jul 15, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Damian Finol &lt;damian(a)wikimedia.org.ve&gt; wrote: There's a difference between voice and votes. US Chapters can participate in meetings, committees, etc. However, when it comes to chapters voting on for example Chapter selected board seats the possibility that the US could potentially have 50 votes is very unfair/scary/overwhelming Damian On Saturday, July 14, 2012, Kirill Lokshin wrote: The idea that all US chapters would have only a single voice in movement-wide discussions. This hasn't been demanded except by tiny minority among other chapters -- and certainly not by anyone who will actually be involved in recognizing future US chapters. As far as I'm concerned, that element makes this proposal a total non-starter. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Mr. Gregory Varnum < gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Which political concessions are you referring to? -Greg ____________ Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for any typos. A more detailed response may be sent later. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Kirill Lokshin < kirill.lokshin(a)wikimediadc.org&gt; wrote: It's entirely unclear to me why we're proposing to make such dramatic political concessions, particularly given the lack of any meaningful external pressure to do so. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Kevin Rutherford &lt;Ktr101(a)hotmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

There's a difference between voice and votes. US Chapters can participate in meetings, committees, etc. However, when it comes to chapters voting on for example Chapter selected board seats the possibility that the US could potentially have 50 votes is very unfair/scary/overwhelming Damian On Saturday, July 14, 2012, Kirill Lokshin wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l

When we go past 4-5, how do we fairly determine which US chapters get to keep their votes and which don't get one? Also, what reason do other nation's chapters have to trust we'll simply give up votes down the road when we have more chapters? Providing a solution now seems a good way to ease concerns and decrease resistance to future US chapters.

Plus, are we really worried that the US is going to lose our clout in WM or WMF?

Granted; and, to be honest, were we really going to have 50 chapters, I'd agree with you. However, it's important to note that the idea of state-level chapters is completely theoretical at this point. At least for the foreseeable future, we will only have a handful of regional chapters -- perhaps 4 or 5 by 2014. It doesn't strike me as unreasonable to allow these to hold the same rights that other chapters have -- particularly as they'll be held to all the same obligations in any case. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 12:01 AM, Damian Finol &lt;damian(a)wikimedia.org.ve&gt; wrote: There's a difference between voice and votes. US Chapters can participate in meetings, committees, etc. However, when it comes to chapters voting on for example Chapter selected board seats the possibility that the US could potentially have 50 votes is very unfair/scary/overwhelming Damian On Saturday, July 14, 2012, Kirill Lokshin wrote: The idea that all US chapters would have only a single voice in movement-wide discussions. This hasn't been demanded except by tiny minority among other chapters -- and certainly not by anyone who will actually be involved in recognizing future US chapters. As far as I'm concerned, that element makes this proposal a total non-starter. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Mr. Gregory Varnum &lt;gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Which political concessions are you referring to? -Greg ____________ Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for any typos. A more detailed response may be sent later. On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Kirill Lokshin &lt;kirill.lokshin(a)wikimediadc.org&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l _______________________________________________ Wikimediaus-l mailing list Wikimediaus-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaus-l