I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally we're a much
more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere our
interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual
chapters as another option.
With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing Asian
Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm wrong),
coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the best
interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep
separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best
interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about
others?
--
Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012
Wikimedia Indonesia
Cell. +62 816 484 5052
~~~~
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan:
http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list
Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
+1
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not our preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to agree on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop the discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are happy to keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only random thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and meet them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative could come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible for us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel that our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more reliable and closer board.
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time. We know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of Trustees if we agree to support him.
Regards,
Kartika
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com < jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" < wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.idwrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally we're a
much
more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere our interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual chapters as another option.
With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing Asian Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm wrong), coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the best interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about others?
-- Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62 816 484 5052
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Well I think Criag owe you a big cup of tea or coffee, Kartika
But talking about reachability, may be I am a bit ahead to get involved of rest of you I dun think the board is unreachable, or course I dun think they will speak for us all the time
but compare between Alice/Patricio & Criag the Australian seems more unreachable to me, so why I suggested the others when the HK board member had consulted my views and eventually they have picked somebody else at this stage.
I think the awkward thing is you guys from Indonesian & Australian chapter saying that your nominees care about us and reachable but the rest of us (at least HK) did feel that at all where atre they at first place? did they really try to talk to us? THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THIS LIST! or send us a single e-mail call for support
so are we frankly begging them represent us? as they are not even put support us on their agenda!
so I dun think group decision will work AT ALL at this moment unless the candidates (who WMID nominates) willing to change their patronizing attitudes (sorry, that's my real impression, sorry if this offend anyone)
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Kartika Sari Henry < kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id> wrote:
+1
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one
candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not our preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to agree on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop the discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are happy to keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only random thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and meet them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative could come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible for us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel that our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more reliable and closer board.
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time. We know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of Trustees if we agree to support him.
Regards,
Kartika
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com < jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" < wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.idwrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally we're
a much
more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere our interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual chapters as another option.
With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing Asian Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm wrong), coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the best interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about others?
-- Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62 816 484 5052
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
--
Kartika Sari Henry | Sekretaris Jenderal (Secretary General) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62812 8012 767
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia chapters and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan < yuyu@wikimedia.hk> wrote:
Well I think Criag owe you a big cup of tea or coffee, Kartika
But talking about reachability, may be I am a bit ahead to get involved of rest of you I dun think the board is unreachable, or course I dun think they will speak for us all the time
but compare between Alice/Patricio & Criag the Australian seems more unreachable to me, so why I suggested the others when the HK board member had consulted my views and eventually they have picked somebody else at this stage.
I think the awkward thing is you guys from Indonesian & Australian chapter saying that your nominees care about us and reachable but the rest of us (at least HK) did feel that at all where atre they at first place? did they really try to talk to us? THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THIS LIST! or send us a single e-mail call for support
so are we frankly begging them represent us? as they are not even put support us on their agenda!
so I dun think group decision will work AT ALL at this moment unless the candidates (who WMID nominates) willing to change their patronizing attitudes (sorry, that's my real impression, sorry if this offend anyone)
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Kartika Sari Henry < kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id> wrote:
+1
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one
candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not our preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to agree on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop the discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are happy to keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only random thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and meet them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative could come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible for us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel that our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more reliable and closer board.
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time. We know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of Trustees if we agree to support him.
Regards,
Kartika
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com < jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" < wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.idwrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally we're
a much
more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere
our
interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual chapters as another option.
With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing Asian Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm
wrong),
coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the best interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about others?
-- Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62 816 484 5052
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
--
Kartika Sari Henry | Sekretaris Jenderal (Secretary General) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62812 8012 767
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
-- Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu
Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601 *Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!*
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia chapters and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I...
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
I don't know: I'm not inclined to judge candidates based on their interactions on this list. What matters to me is the value that they bring when they serve on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.
I will admit that I have not net Craig personally (or maybe I have?), but I think Wikimedia Australia does have an interest at looking at what is happening in their own backyard. Based on our interactions with the chapter as a whole however, we think they can be a reliable partner: in fact, Craig will be helping us (per what I have been hearing from our representatives to Berlin this year) with capacity-building, which is beneficial to WMPH in general in the long run.
We're beginning to finalize our short list, and we're looking at the candidates carefully. But let's try to refocus the question a bit here, especially given all the chatter on the main chapters mailing list: who among the Asian chapters supports the Berlin Consensus?
Regards,
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:03 Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id napisał(a):
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia chapters and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I...
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Just to add on: if we were to base it on list interaction alone, I wouldn't be so inclined to vote for Theo either: not only is he not on this list, he has also shown his skepticism to me about Wikimedia Asia in the past on Meta, during the initial discussions for the formation of the Chapters Council.
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:17 Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com napisał(a):
I don't know: I'm not inclined to judge candidates based on their interactions on this list. What matters to me is the value that they bring when they serve on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.
I will admit that I have not net Craig personally (or maybe I have?), but I think Wikimedia Australia does have an interest at looking at what is happening in their own backyard. Based on our interactions with the chapter as a whole however, we think they can be a reliable partner: in fact, Craig will be helping us (per what I have been hearing from our representatives to Berlin this year) with capacity-building, which is beneficial to WMPH in general in the long run.
We're beginning to finalize our short list, and we're looking at the candidates carefully. But let's try to refocus the question a bit here, especially given all the chatter on the main chapters mailing list: who among the Asian chapters supports the Berlin Consensus?
Regards,
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:03 Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id napisał(a):
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia chapters and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I...
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
On Apr 14, 2012 1:17 PM, "Josh Lim" jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't know: I'm not inclined to judge candidates based on their
interactions on this list. What matters to me is the value that they bring when they serve on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.
I will admit that I have not net Craig personally (or maybe I have?), but
I think Wikimedia Australia does have an interest at looking at what is happening in their own backyard. Based on our interactions with the chapter as a whole however, we think they can be a reliable partner: in fact, Craig will be helping us (per what I have been hearing from our representatives to Berlin this year) with capacity-building, which is beneficial to WMPH in general in the long run.
We're beginning to finalize our short list, and we're looking at the
candidates carefully. But let's try to refocus the question a bit here, especially given all the chatter on the main chapters mailing list: who among the Asian chapters supports the Berlin Consensus?
...which Berlin consensus?
Regards,
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:03 Kartika Sari Henry <
kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id> napisał(a):
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk
wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia
chapters
and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan <
yuyu@wikimedia.hk> wrote:
Well I...
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Berlin Consensus: Alice and Patricio fr CSBS.
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:38 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com napisał(a):
On Apr 14, 2012 1:17 PM, "Josh Lim" jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't know: I'm not inclined to judge candidates based on their interactions on this list. What matters to me is the value that they bring when they serve on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.
I will admit that I have not net Craig personally (or maybe I have?), but I think Wikimedia Australia does have an interest at looking at what is happening in their own backyard. Based on our interactions with the chapter as a whole however, we think they can be a reliable partner: in fact, Craig will be helping us (per what I have been hearing from our representatives to Berlin this year) with capacity-building, which is beneficial to WMPH in general in the long run.
We're beginning to finalize our short list, and we're looking at the candidates carefully. But let's try to refocus the question a bit here, especially given all the chatter on the main chapters mailing list: who among the Asian chapters supports the Berlin Consensus?
...which Berlin consensus?
Regards,
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:03 Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id napisał(a):
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia chapters and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I...
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On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
Berlin Consensus: Alice and Patricio fr CSBS.
I don't think non-public information should be discussed as such.
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Hm. Granted, and I won't speak on it further. But since the Board members of the Asian chapters are here, I thought it might be prudent to discuss it here.
Josh
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Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 08:02 Anirudh Bhati anirudhsbh@gmail.com napisał(a):
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote: Berlin Consensus: Alice and Patricio fr CSBS.
I don't think non-public information should be discussed as such.
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Although what Josh said did take me by surprise. From what I heard from Jerry and Rover I was under the impression that there was no consensus whatsoever in Berlin over whom to appoint to CSBS. On Apr 14, 2012 2:09 PM, "Josh Lim" jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
Hm. Granted, and I won't speak on it further. But since the Board members of the Asian chapters are here, I thought it might be prudent to discuss it here.
Josh
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Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 08:02 Anirudh Bhati anirudhsbh@gmail.com napisał(a):
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.comwrote:
Berlin Consensus: Alice and Patricio fr CSBS.
I don't think non-public information should be discussed as such.
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On Apr 14, 2012 2:03 PM, "Anirudh Bhati" anirudhsbh@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think non-public information should be discussed as such.
This list is private ;)
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On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hkwrote:
This list is private ;)
Ah, my apologies then. I thought the archives were available to list members who were free to sign up.
Hi Josh,
In Berlin, there was no consensus. Every chapter representatives expressed there view; that is it.
-- naveenpf
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
Berlin Consensus: Alice and Patricio fr CSBS.
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:38 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com napisał(a):
On Apr 14, 2012 1:17 PM, "Josh Lim" jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't know: I'm not inclined to judge candidates based on their
interactions on this list. What matters to me is the value that they bring when they serve on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.
I will admit that I have not net Craig personally (or maybe I have?),
but I think Wikimedia Australia does have an interest at looking at what is happening in their own backyard. Based on our interactions with the chapter as a whole however, we think they can be a reliable partner: in fact, Craig will be helping us (per what I have been hearing from our representatives to Berlin this year) with capacity-building, which is beneficial to WMPH in general in the long run.
We're beginning to finalize our short list, and we're looking at the
candidates carefully. But let's try to refocus the question a bit here, especially given all the chatter on the main chapters mailing list: who among the Asian chapters supports the Berlin Consensus?
...which Berlin consensus?
Regards,
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:03 Kartika Sari Henry <
kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id> napisał(a):
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk
wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of
Asia chapters
and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless
discussion,
and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan <
yuyu@wikimedia.hk> wrote:
Well I...
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Hm. If that's the case, why are people parading it on Internal and Chapters as if there WAS a consensus?
Josh
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Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 08:12 Naveen Francis naveenpf@wikimedia.in napisał(a):
Hi Josh,
In Berlin, there was no consensus. Every chapter representatives expressed there view; that is it.
-- naveenpf
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote: Berlin Consensus: Alice and Patricio fr CSBS.
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:38 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com napisał(a):
On Apr 14, 2012 1:17 PM, "Josh Lim" jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't know: I'm not inclined to judge candidates based on their interactions on this list. What matters to me is the value that they bring when they serve on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.
I will admit that I have not net Craig personally (or maybe I have?), but I think Wikimedia Australia does have an interest at looking at what is happening in their own backyard. Based on our interactions with the chapter as a whole however, we think they can be a reliable partner: in fact, Craig will be helping us (per what I have been hearing from our representatives to Berlin this year) with capacity-building, which is beneficial to WMPH in general in the long run.
We're beginning to finalize our short list, and we're looking at the candidates carefully. But let's try to refocus the question a bit here, especially given all the chatter on the main chapters mailing list: who among the Asian chapters supports the Berlin Consensus?
...which Berlin consensus?
Regards,
Josh
Wysłane z iPoda
Dnia 14 kwi 2012 o godz. 07:03 Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id napisał(a):
Thank you very much for your honest response, Jerome Yu. I don't feel offended at all :) I will not tell him to approach you. If he do it later then it's not coming from me.
The idea of having a regional decision may be only remain as an idea, since you consider this as meaningless discussion. I started to follow up the idea by come up with names and I'm happy that people also gave some names rather than another absurp matter, because in the end, all we need is a name to prove what Josh said before. Since WMPH against Theo, I stop to talk about him and move forward with another candidates (which I know, maybe if I know Lodewijk or Patricio, I'll speak about them too). In more polite way, let me conclude that you against Craig and feel that this disscussion will not going anywhere. If WMHK stated before that they strongly against Craig then I would not talk about him before and wasting your time with my email which sounds patronizing :(
Regards,
Kartika
On 14 Apr 2012 10:23, "Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan" yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
so if I were you, I would talk with Criag now to see if he can do something to show his friendliness to rest of Asia chapters and more important show rest of the world he willing represent Asia
rather gnashing of teeth with us on this rather meaningless discussion, and telling Kim Jung Un is reachable to you.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I...
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Hi Jerry,
I have been on this list for years. It's been pretty quiet here.
Craig hasnt joined this list now because he does not want to be part of discussions about himself and other candidates.
I can only speak about what the Wikimedia Australia board has been doing with Asia over the last few years. Before 2010, we had no money and no capacity.
After Fundraiser 2010, we had money. The board, including Craig, agrees we have to use it to build local and regional engagement. We struggled in the first year because one board member wanted all money to go to Australia only, because our Statement of Purpose says Australia only.
http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Statement_of_Purpose
The rest of us argue that Australia is only a core activity, but our scope is broader.
For Berlin 2010, Wikimedia Australia funded two international attendees, however WMDE refused to let us fund them directly. They wanted all money to go to Berlin, and they would book flights. We wanted to ensure these international attendees were from an Asian chapter, but we were not allowed to publish a resolution to say this. So we sent money to Berlin. ;-(
For RecentChangesCamp 2011, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for Chriswaterguy, Wikipedian & co-founder of Appropedia, to come from Singapore to Australia. Chris has since become a member of WMAU, and is now a moderator on this list. We selected him to be the 'Australian' moderator because he spends most of his time in Asian, so he has language and cultural experience the rest of us Australians do not have.
WMAU brought Siska to the Meta 2011 conference. Siska also came over for two Wiki meetups last November.
For RecentChangesCamp 2012, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for Crisco 1492, to come from Indonesia, and user:Sonia to come from New Zealand. WMAU is very keen to help a NZ chapter start. We were considering a sponsorship for Taweetham (WM Thailand) but then we find out he is already here in Australia for other reasons. https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Canberra/RCC2012/... We wanted to sponsor applicants Arvin Ello or Tanvir Rahman, however they were waiting for WMF grant first, but they were rejected, so by the time we looked to sponsor them, their visas wouldnt be approved in time . https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Arvin_Ello/RecentChangesCamp2012 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikitanvir/RecentChangesCamp_2012 So we sponsored Danny B.
At our AGM in October 2011, the WMAU members, including Craig, approved a conference in Indonesia. http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:2012_Languages_conference That program could not proceed as written due to the fundraiser changes, but it is only on hold.
Before 2010 we were a local organisation, struggling with no money. Since 2010 Craig has been the treasurer approving money for networking with our Asian neighbours. We are only starting to reach out, and building capacity (lots of hard work ;-( ) and we've focused on our immediate neighbours, which is practical. However if you have been to Australia you will surely know that Australia is as much Asian culture as it is European.
We want to see more conferences, especially in SE Asia. We hope Asia wins the Wikimania bid, so we can send lots of people to it.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I think Criag owe you a big cup of tea or coffee, Kartika
But talking about reachability, may be I am a bit ahead to get involved of rest of you I dun think the board is unreachable, or course I dun think they will speak for us all the time
but compare between Alice/Patricio & Criag the Australian seems more unreachable to me, so why I suggested the others when the HK board member had consulted my views and eventually they have picked somebody else at this stage.
I think the awkward thing is you guys from Indonesian & Australian chapter saying that your nominees care about us and reachable but the rest of us (at least HK) did feel that at all where atre they at first place? did they really try to talk to us? THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THIS LIST! or send us a single e-mail call for support
so are we frankly begging them represent us? as they are not even put support us on their agenda!
so I dun think group decision will work AT ALL at this moment unless the candidates (who WMID nominates) willing to change their patronizing attitudes (sorry, that's my real impression, sorry if this offend anyone)
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
+1
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not our preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to agree on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop the discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are happy to keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only random thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and meet them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative could come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible for us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel that our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more reliable and closer board.
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time. We know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of Trustees if we agree to support him.
Regards,
Kartika
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally we're a much more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere our interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual chapters as another option.
With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing Asian Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm wrong), coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the best interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about others?
-- Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62 816 484 5052
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
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--
Kartika Sari Henry | Sekretaris Jenderal (Secretary General) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62812 8012 767
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
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-- Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu
Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601 Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!
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Hi John I have notice all your good work on the issues
I think that's your joint work, and would be good for me, as I am rather in a position supporting regional development
But I think the consideration of the Hong Kong board is rather local
how their voice will be heard in the new board is most important consideration
I am not sure about WMHK board had already ruled out Criag (I repeat, I cannot speak for the board, and just reflecting their opinion in acceptable way)
but the problem is if the one who can ask the HK board to support Criag is only himself (as I estimates)
As I understands HK board is feeling ignored and being heavily persuade by the Indonesians to support somebody sounds unreachable to them.
That's why they tend to turn to sb tend to more europeans, becoz at least they know them talk with them
If Criag dun like to show up on this list, I think the only way is probably he could write a letter to all Asian Boards to show his firm support on Asian developments
otherwise I can only see no chance we can reach anything but Europeans
btw Patricio is never on the list of support from HK board as I know
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 12:39 PM, John Vandenberg jayvdb@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I have been on this list for years. It's been pretty quiet here.
Craig hasnt joined this list now because he does not want to be part of discussions about himself and other candidates.
I can only speak about what the Wikimedia Australia board has been doing with Asia over the last few years. Before 2010, we had no money and no capacity.
After Fundraiser 2010, we had money. The board, including Craig, agrees we have to use it to build local and regional engagement. We struggled in the first year because one board member wanted all money to go to Australia only, because our Statement of Purpose says Australia only.
http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Statement_of_Purpose
The rest of us argue that Australia is only a core activity, but our scope is broader.
For Berlin 2010, Wikimedia Australia funded two international attendees, however WMDE refused to let us fund them directly. They wanted all money to go to Berlin, and they would book flights. We wanted to ensure these international attendees were from an Asian chapter, but we were not allowed to publish a resolution to say this. So we sent money to Berlin. ;-(
For RecentChangesCamp 2011, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for Chriswaterguy, Wikipedian & co-founder of Appropedia, to come from Singapore to Australia. Chris has since become a member of WMAU, and is now a moderator on this list. We selected him to be the 'Australian' moderator because he spends most of his time in Asian, so he has language and cultural experience the rest of us Australians do not have.
WMAU brought Siska to the Meta 2011 conference. Siska also came over for two Wiki meetups last November.
For RecentChangesCamp 2012, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for Crisco 1492, to come from Indonesia, and user:Sonia to come from New Zealand. WMAU is very keen to help a NZ chapter start. We were considering a sponsorship for Taweetham (WM Thailand) but then we find out he is already here in Australia for other reasons.
https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Canberra/RCC2012/... We wanted to sponsor applicants Arvin Ello or Tanvir Rahman, however they were waiting for WMF grant first, but they were rejected, so by the time we looked to sponsor them, their visas wouldnt be approved in time . https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Arvin_Ello/RecentChangesCamp2012 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikitanvir/RecentChangesCamp_2012 So we sponsored Danny B.
At our AGM in October 2011, the WMAU members, including Craig, approved a conference in Indonesia. http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:2012_Languages_conference That program could not proceed as written due to the fundraiser changes, but it is only on hold.
Before 2010 we were a local organisation, struggling with no money. Since 2010 Craig has been the treasurer approving money for networking with our Asian neighbours. We are only starting to reach out, and building capacity (lots of hard work ;-( ) and we've focused on our immediate neighbours, which is practical. However if you have been to Australia you will surely know that Australia is as much Asian culture as it is European.
We want to see more conferences, especially in SE Asia. We hope Asia wins the Wikimania bid, so we can send lots of people to it.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I think Criag owe you a big cup of tea or coffee, Kartika
But talking about reachability, may be I am a bit ahead to get involved
of
rest of you I dun think the board is unreachable, or course I dun think they will
speak
for us all the time
but compare between Alice/Patricio & Criag the Australian seems more unreachable to me, so why I suggested the
others
when the HK board member had consulted my views and eventually they have picked somebody else at this stage.
I think the awkward thing is you guys from Indonesian & Australian
chapter
saying that your nominees care about us and reachable but the rest of us (at least HK) did feel that at all where atre they at first place? did they really try to talk to us? THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THIS LIST! or send us a single e-mail call for support
so are we frankly begging them represent us? as they are not even put support us on their agenda!
so I dun think group decision will work AT ALL at this moment unless the candidates (who WMID nominates) willing to change their patronizing attitudes (sorry, that's my real impression, sorry if this offend anyone)
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
+1
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as
being a
viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national
mode
of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not
our
preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to
agree
on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop
the
discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are
happy to
keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only
random
thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and
meet
them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative
could
come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible
for
us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel
that
our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more reliable and closer board.
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time.
We
know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of
Trustees if
we agree to support him.
Regards,
Kartika
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as
being a
viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national
mode
of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally
we're
a much more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere our interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual chapters as another option.
With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing
Asian
Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm wrong), coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the
best
interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even
if we
decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other
and
have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about others?
-- Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62 816 484 5052
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
--
Kartika Sari Henry | Sekretaris Jenderal (Secretary General) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62812 8012 767
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
-- Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu
Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601 Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
-- John Vandenberg
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Thanks for helping me understand. I've sent Craig an email asking that he provides you and other chapters with a better understanding of what he intends to achieve and how it will benefit chapters in our part of the world.
IMO Europeans on the board has not helped us. They put all conferences intheir own country, and we need to beg to pay the high costs of participating.
Iberocoop has a good system where they rotate which country hosts major conferences each year. We should do the same in our region. They work together and build regional capacity and networking. , I would like to see RecentChangesCamps being held in Asia, because they are so simple. The only two ingredients are writable walls and an experienced open-space unconference facilitator. Does anyone know of a wiki person who is also a suitable facilitator?
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Hi John I have notice all your good work on the issues
I think that's your joint work, and would be good for me, as I am rather in a position supporting regional development
But I think the consideration of the Hong Kong board is rather local
how their voice will be heard in the new board is most important consideration
I am not sure about WMHK board had already ruled out Criag (I repeat, I cannot speak for the board, and just reflecting their opinion in acceptable way)
but the problem is if the one who can ask the HK board to support Criag is only himself (as I estimates)
As I understands HK board is feeling ignored and being heavily persuade by the Indonesians to support somebody sounds unreachable to them.
That's why they tend to turn to sb tend to more europeans, becoz at least they know them talk with them
If Criag dun like to show up on this list, I think the only way is probably he could write a letter to all Asian Boards to show his firm support on Asian developments
otherwise I can only see no chance we can reach anything but Europeans
btw Patricio is never on the list of support from HK board as I know
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 12:39 PM, John Vandenberg jayvdb@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I have been on this list for years. It's been pretty quiet here.
Craig hasnt joined this list now because he does not want to be part of discussions about himself and other candidates.
I can only speak about what the Wikimedia Australia board has been doing with Asia over the last few years. Before 2010, we had no money and no capacity.
After Fundraiser 2010, we had money. The board, including Craig, agrees we have to use it to build local and regional engagement. We struggled in the first year because one board member wanted all money to go to Australia only, because our Statement of Purpose says Australia only.
http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Statement_of_Purpose
The rest of us argue that Australia is only a core activity, but our scope is broader.
For Berlin 2010, Wikimedia Australia funded two international attendees, however WMDE refused to let us fund them directly. They wanted all money to go to Berlin, and they would book flights. We wanted to ensure these international attendees were from an Asian chapter, but we were not allowed to publish a resolution to say this. So we sent money to Berlin. ;-(
For RecentChangesCamp 2011, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for Chriswaterguy, Wikipedian & co-founder of Appropedia, to come from Singapore to Australia. Chris has since become a member of WMAU, and is now a moderator on this list. We selected him to be the 'Australian' moderator because he spends most of his time in Asian, so he has language and cultural experience the rest of us Australians do not have.
WMAU brought Siska to the Meta 2011 conference. Siska also came over for two Wiki meetups last November.
For RecentChangesCamp 2012, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for Crisco 1492, to come from Indonesia, and user:Sonia to come from New Zealand. WMAU is very keen to help a NZ chapter start. We were considering a sponsorship for Taweetham (WM Thailand) but then we find out he is already here in Australia for other reasons.
https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Canberra/RCC2012/... We wanted to sponsor applicants Arvin Ello or Tanvir Rahman, however they were waiting for WMF grant first, but they were rejected, so by the time we looked to sponsor them, their visas wouldnt be approved in time . https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Arvin_Ello/RecentChangesCamp2012 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikitanvir/RecentChangesCamp_2012 So we sponsored Danny B.
At our AGM in October 2011, the WMAU members, including Craig, approved a conference in Indonesia. http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:2012_Languages_conference That program could not proceed as written due to the fundraiser changes, but it is only on hold.
Before 2010 we were a local organisation, struggling with no money. Since 2010 Craig has been the treasurer approving money for networking with our Asian neighbours. We are only starting to reach out, and building capacity (lots of hard work ;-( ) and we've focused on our immediate neighbours, which is practical. However if you have been to Australia you will surely know that Australia is as much Asian culture as it is European.
We want to see more conferences, especially in SE Asia. We hope Asia wins the Wikimania bid, so we can send lots of people to it.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan yuyu@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Well I think Criag owe you a big cup of tea or coffee, Kartika
But talking about reachability, may be I am a bit ahead to get involved of rest of you I dun think the board is unreachable, or course I dun think they will speak for us all the time
but compare between Alice/Patricio & Criag the Australian seems more unreachable to me, so why I suggested the others when the HK board member had consulted my views and eventually they have picked somebody else at this stage.
I think the awkward thing is you guys from Indonesian & Australian chapter saying that your nominees care about us and reachable but the rest of us (at least HK) did feel that at all where atre they at first place? did they really try to talk to us? THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THIS LIST! or send us a single e-mail call for support
so are we frankly begging them represent us? as they are not even put support us on their agenda!
so I dun think group decision will work AT ALL at this moment unless the candidates (who WMID nominates) willing to change their patronizing attitudes (sorry, that's my real impression, sorry if this offend anyone)
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Kartika Sari Henry kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
+1
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not our preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to agree on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop the discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are happy to keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only random thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and meet them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative could come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible for us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel that our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more reliable and closer board.
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time. We know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of Trustees if we agree to support him.
Regards,
Kartika
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one candidate, for example. If we want to even think of ourselves as being a viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is but that: an idea. We should at least try to prove them wrong.
Josh
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message ----- From: "Deryck Chan" deryckchan@wikimedia.hk To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination" wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.id wrote:
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote: > The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally > we're > a much > more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere > our > interests are less aligned with each other than they.
I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual chapters as another option.
> With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing > Asian > Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm > wrong), > coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the > best > interests of individual chapters among us.
But then again what the point of having this list if we keep separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and have come to that conclusion.
So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about others?
-- Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62 816 484 5052
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
--
Kartika Sari Henry | Sekretaris Jenderal (Secretary General) 2011-2012 Wikimedia Indonesia Cell. +62812 8012 767
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
-- Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu
Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601 Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
-- John Vandenberg
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
-- Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu
Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601 Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org