Hi John
I have notice all your good work on the issues

I think that's your joint work, and would be good for me, as I am rather in a position supporting regional development

But I think the consideration of the Hong Kong board is rather local

how their voice will be heard in the new board is most important consideration

I am not sure about WMHK board had already ruled out Criag 
(I repeat, I cannot speak for the board, and just reflecting their opinion in acceptable way)

but the problem is if the one who can ask the HK board to support Criag is only himself (as I estimates)

As I understands HK board is feeling ignored and 
being heavily persuade by the Indonesians to support somebody sounds unreachable to them. 

That's why they tend to turn to sb tend to more europeans, becoz at least they know them talk with them

If Criag dun like to show up on this list, I think the only way is probably he could write a letter to all Asian Boards to
show his firm support on Asian developments

otherwise I can only see no chance we can reach anything but Europeans

btw Patricio is never on the list of support from HK board as I know

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 12:39 PM, John Vandenberg <jayvdb@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jerry,

I have been on this list for years.  It's been pretty quiet here.

Craig hasnt joined this list now because he does not want to be part
of discussions about himself and other candidates.

I can only speak about what the Wikimedia Australia board has been
doing with Asia over the last few years.  Before 2010, we had no money
and no capacity.

After Fundraiser 2010, we had money.  The board, including Craig,
agrees we have to use it to build local and regional engagement.  We
struggled in the first year because one board member wanted all money
to go to Australia only, because our Statement of Purpose says
Australia only.

http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Statement_of_Purpose

The rest of us argue that Australia is only a core activity, but our
scope is broader.

For Berlin 2010, Wikimedia Australia funded two international
attendees, however WMDE refused to let us fund them directly.  They
wanted all money to go to Berlin, and they would book flights.  We
wanted to ensure these international attendees were from an Asian
chapter, but we were not allowed to publish a resolution to say this.
So we sent money to Berlin. ;-(

For RecentChangesCamp 2011, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for
Chriswaterguy, Wikipedian & co-founder of Appropedia, to come from
Singapore to Australia.  Chris has since become a member of WMAU, and
is now a moderator on this list.  We selected him to be the
'Australian' moderator because he spends most of his time in Asian, so
he has language and cultural experience the rest of us Australians do
not have.

WMAU brought Siska to the Meta 2011 conference.  Siska also came over
for two Wiki meetups last November.

For RecentChangesCamp 2012, WMAU provided travel sponsorship for
Crisco 1492, to come from Indonesia, and user:Sonia to come from New
Zealand.  WMAU is very keen to help a NZ chapter start.  We were
considering a sponsorship for Taweetham (WM Thailand) but then we find
out he is already here in Australia for other reasons.
https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Canberra/RCC2012/Participants&diff=849233&oldid=849220
We wanted to sponsor applicants Arvin Ello or Tanvir Rahman, however
they were waiting for WMF grant first, but they were rejected, so by
the time we looked to sponsor them, their visas wouldnt be approved in
time .
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Arvin_Ello/RecentChangesCamp2012
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikitanvir/RecentChangesCamp_2012
So we sponsored Danny B.

At our AGM in October 2011, the WMAU members, including Craig,
approved a conference in Indonesia.
http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:2012_Languages_conference
That program could not proceed as written due to the fundraiser
changes, but it is only on hold.

Before 2010 we were a local organisation, struggling with no money.
Since 2010 Craig has been the treasurer approving money for networking
with our Asian neighbours.  We are only starting to reach out, and
building capacity (lots of hard work ;-( ) and we've focused on our
immediate neighbours, which is practical.
However if you have been to Australia you will surely know that
Australia is as much Asian culture as it is European.

We want to see more conferences, especially in SE Asia.  We hope Asia
wins the Wikimania bid, so we can send lots of people to it.

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan
<yuyu@wikimedia.hk> wrote:
> Well I think Criag owe you a big cup of tea or coffee, Kartika
>
> But talking about reachability, may be I am a bit ahead to get involved of
> rest of you
> I dun think the board is unreachable, or course I dun think they will speak
> for us all the time
>
> but compare between Alice/Patricio & Criag
> the Australian seems more unreachable to me, so why I suggested the others
> when the HK board member had consulted my views
> and eventually they have picked somebody else at this stage.
>
> I think the awkward thing is you guys from Indonesian & Australian chapter
> saying that your nominees care about us and reachable
> but the rest of us (at least HK) did feel that at all
> where atre they at first place?
> did they really try to talk to us?
> THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THIS LIST!
> or send us a single e-mail call for support
>
> so are we frankly begging  them represent us?
> as they are not even put support us on their agenda!
>
> so I dun think group decision will work AT ALL at this moment
> unless the candidates (who WMID nominates) willing to change their
> patronizing attitudes (sorry, that's my real impression, sorry if this
> offend anyone)
>
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Kartika Sari Henry
> <kartika.sari.henry@wikimedia.or.id> wrote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>>>  I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one
>>> candidate, for example.  If we want to even think of ourselves as being a
>>> viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode
>>> of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
>>
>>
>> Based on the Asian Chapters views, I guessed Alice or Patricio are not our
>> preferences. I doubt that neither of them is interested in what happened
>> internationally or particularly in Asia. We refuse to support them since
>> they main interest might be only for Europe/Latin America. Moreover, we
>> already have European on the Board, and looks like they are going to agree
>> on each other despite of who to support them before (namely Asian). The
>> chapters list discussion clearly indicates the supporter want to stop the
>> discussing process because they will win a landslide vote.
>>
>> If WMID could vote on one name, we will go for Craig. At least we have a
>> closer Board of Trustees around for smaller Asian Chapters. We are happy to
>> keep reminding him how he got the position and what he promised. Only random
>> thought, but having Australian/Asian as a representative will be
>> advantageous since it's easier for he/she to help Asian potential and meet
>> them face to face. Or, Asian (or potential) chapters representative could
>> come to Australia instead for face to face meeting. That's more visible for
>> us rather than sending someone to Europe or America. Personally, I feel that
>> our current European/American boards are 'unreachable', we need a more
>> reliable and closer board.
>>
>> We could argue about this, but I don't think it's even worth our time. We
>> know in fact that some non-Asian, non-Australian Chapters are willing to
>> support Craig. It's likely Craig will secure a seat in Board of Trustees if
>> we agree to support him.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kartika
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
>> <jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm still inclined to do this regionally, even if we only agree on one
>>> candidate, for example.  If we want to even think of ourselves as being a
>>> viable grouping of Asian chapters, we need to go beyond this national mode
>>> of thinking and start looking at things from a broader perspective.
>>>
>>> As it is, even people in the region think the idea of Wikimedia Asia is
>>> but that: an idea.  We should at least try to prove them wrong.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> Sent from my HTC
>>>
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "Deryck Chan" <deryckchan@wikimedia.hk>
>>> To: "Asian Wikimedia Chapters coordination"
>>> <wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-asia-chapters] Chapter selected board seat
>>> Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 1:26 pm
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 April 2012 23:01, Siska Doviana <siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.id>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Deryck Chan <deryckchan@wikimedia.hk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The main difference between us and Iberocoop is that culturally we're
>>>> > a much
>>>> > more diverse bunch then them, therefore within the Wikimedia sphere
>>>> > our
>>>> > interests are less aligned with each other than they.
>>>>
>>>> I completely agree, that's why I suggested to go as individual
>>>> chapters as another option.
>>>>
>>>> > With neither Craig nor Theo putting representing and developing Asian
>>>> > Wikimedian communities as their main agendum (correct me if I'm
>>>> > wrong),
>>>> > coordinated voting between Asian chapters is probably not in the best
>>>> > interests of individual chapters among us.
>>>>
>>>> But then again what the point of having this list if we keep
>>>> separating each other? For fun? * it might work too IMHO *
>>>
>>>
>>> We all know that - to help us talk to each other, and investigate the
>>> possibility of cooperating. If we decide to join up, great. But even if we
>>> decide to go separate ways, it's good that we've talked to each other and
>>> have come to that conclusion.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So? One (HK) say we have to go individually for the chapter's best
>>>> interest, another (India) said we should do this regionally, how about
>>>> others?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Siska Doviana | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2011-2012
>>>> Wikimedia Indonesia
>>>> Cell. +62 816 484 5052
>>>> ~~~~
>>>> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan:
>>>> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list
>>>> Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list
>>> Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kartika Sari Henry | Sekretaris Jenderal (Secretary General) 2011-2012
>> Wikimedia Indonesia
>> Cell. +62812 8012 767
>>
>>
>> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan:
>> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list
>> Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD
> User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia
> Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong
> ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation
> Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team
> also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places
> http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu
>
> Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601
> Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list
> Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters
>



--
John Vandenberg

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-asia-chapters mailing list
Wikimedia-asia-chapters@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-asia-chapters



--
Jeromy-Yu "Jerry" Chan, ARAD
User:Yuyu | zh.wikipedia
Advisor, Wikimedia Hong Kong
ChapCom/ComCom, Wikimedia Foundation
Communications Co-Head, Wikimania HK Bidding Team
also Jeromyu on twitter, plurk and most of places
http://yuyu.be/txt | http://about.me/jeromyu

Tel (Mobile): +852 9279 1601
Lend us a simple edit, you're a Wikipedian!