Tony Sidaway wrote:
What worries me here is that we patently *don't*. Should we ever block an editor who's clearly demonstrating good faith, is not violating any policy of Wikipedia, but isn't complying absolutely 100% with all the guidelines? Of course not, you say, that's absurd, we'd never do such a thing. But this is precisely what was done to Maoririder twice within one week of his arriving here. Why does it happen? What unacknowledged bit of vindictiveness existing in the human spirit enabled this to be done by people who told themselves that they were doing so for the best of motives?
Newpages/RC patrol fatigue. Which may not be an excuse, though it seems to be the reason.
I have every sympathy with those valiant souls who hold back the barrage of truly shoot-on-sight crap we get. You've done both, you *know* what I mean. (Speaking as a broad inclusionist myself, maybe 20-30% of new stuff needs to die immediately, and I think everyone of inclusionist leanings really needs to do a bit of newpages and RC patrol. Sunday evening US time is a fantastic time for really good bad examples.)
OTOH, the general standard goes overboard at times - any one-sentence stub even on a subject eminently worthy of coverage tends to get shot on sight for being a single sentence, even though that's not a Candidate for Speedy Deletion. I'm not sure what to do about this, and I'm reluctant to criticise those on the front lines too strongly.
- d.
On 10/12/05, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
OTOH, the general standard goes overboard at times - any one-sentence stub even on a subject eminently worthy of coverage tends to get shot on sight for being a single sentence, even though that's not a Candidate for Speedy Deletion. I'm not sure what to do about this, and I'm reluctant to criticise those on the front lines too strongly.
I feel exactly the same: I've monitored RC patrollers and doing that only gave me more confidence in their general ability to good judgements.
While I wouldn't wish to criticise these essential front-liners, perhaps guidance is in order (and this takes us right back to my original proposal).
Usually the RC patrollers are the first to notice a new editor, especially an unusual one.
I regret using the A-word. It was ill-judged and surely gave needless offence. But there are people who show competence, skill, willingness, courtesy, charm and everything else we'd expect of a good Wikipedia editor, who nevertheless don't respond with quite the immediate comprehension and conformity that is appropriate when a dozen or so people come to them with precisely the same reasonable complaint--even where reluctance is shown, and defensiveness, this is all part of a well worn game the rules of which most of us know: a token resistance, a complaint or two, and then conformity.
There are people who don't untuit those rules, they have to simulate that processing with their cognitive functions, which are sometimes quite formidable but don't process information as quickly or as reliably as instinctive thought. Their behavior may sometimes seem inappropriate.
And, as you say, there are articles that get deleted for no other reason than the first person who encounters them thinks a single sentence cannot possibly convey meaningful information. Poppycock.
RC patrol needs guidance. This is the sharp end, not only in the fight to keep the wiki healthy, but in recruiting the new editors who will take our place when we move on to other things. We must expend thought on coming up with guidelines, or etiquette, for greeting new editors. Seat-of-pants methods have perhaps outlived their usefulness.
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Tony Sidaway wrote: <snip>
RC patrol needs guidance. This is the sharp end, not only in the fight to keep the wiki healthy, but in recruiting the new editors who will take our place when we move on to other things. We must expend thought on coming up with guidelines, or etiquette, for greeting new editors. Seat-of-pants methods have perhaps outlived their usefulness.
*steps up* Hello, I've done RC patrol, Shortpages patrol and (sometimes) Newpages and Newusers patrol. I'm also a member of the welcoming committee. One of the first things I do when I log on each day is to check my watchlist and welcome any logged-in users who've edited one of my watched articles. Sometimes I have to revert newbie tests, sometimes I have to put up with bad writing, but on the whole it's not too bad. You get the chance to be the first interaction that people have with someone who's been around a while, and hopefully they read some of the things that you suggest to them.
Once in a while, you have to reach for the LART, but it's better to educate and inform them before they've gone completely bonkers and teach them the value of the encyclopedia instead of waiting until they go off the rails on us, isn't it?
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