Brion wrote:
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 10:26, Daniel Mayer wrote:
Please see [[Talk:Crass]]. In Michael's new
incarnation as Weezer, he wrote: "You call me Michael
one more time. I'll pound on your neck, and smash you into pieces and kill you Zoe."
Zoe
=20 Could one of the developers get this creep's IP so that Zoe can call the cops? This is well above being a simple bannable offense. Death threats can never be justified.
That's certainly highly inappropriate on Wikipedia,
Oh? I thought the current consensus was to allow Admins the ability to view the IP number of logged-in users and the only reason this hasn't been done yet is because it is a low priority right now for developers (nothing wrong with that - so long as developers don't mind fetching IPs every once in a while). And since when do users have the right stay truely anonymous (sic no access to IP address data) after threatening anther user anyway? But maybe I missed something (it wouldn't be the first time - I'm so dense sometimes), so please enlighten me Brion.
and quite probably contravenes their ISP (AOL)'s terms of service as well.
I fail to see how finding out the IP number that this user was using at the time of making the death threat would contravene AOL's terms of service. That is unless those terms protect the right of their users to make such threats. I seriously doubt this.
If Zoe would like to complain to AOL on this matter, by all means do so.
That narrows it down to about 30 million people. Better than nothing I guess.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
WikiKarma The usual at [[March 24]]
--- Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
Brion wrote:
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 10:26, Daniel Mayer wrote:
Please see [[Talk:Crass]]. In Michael's new
incarnation as Weezer, he wrote: "You call me
Michael
one more time. I'll pound on your neck, and
smash you
into pieces and kill you Zoe."
Zoe
=20 Could one of the developers get this creep's IP
so
that Zoe can call the cops? This is well above
being a
simple bannable offense. Death threats can never
be
justified.
That's certainly highly inappropriate on Wikipedia,
Oh? I thought the current consensus was to allow Admins the ability to view the IP number of logged-in users and the only reason this hasn't been done yet is because it is a low priority right now for developers (nothing wrong with that - so long as developers don't mind fetching IPs every once in a while). And since when do users have the right stay truely anonymous (sic no access to IP address data) after threatening anther user anyway? But maybe I missed something (it wouldn't be the first time - I'm so dense sometimes), so please enlighten me Brion.
Oh ! And since when *exactly* was it a consensus that sysops would be allowed to see other people ip please ? Enlighten me on that, 'cause I have no memory of having ever since a consensus about that.
Was it discussed in one of this remote places on a talk page on the en wiki ? It sounds as if it was a consensus essentially reached by you.
As far as I am concerned, I consider it a *very* dangerous breach on people privacy and freedom.
Through IPs, it is possible to find people real names, and I strongly object to this made possible. I see not why you - as a sysop - would be given the right to know who I am. Sysop are there to help wikipedia, not to have power on people. There is an important notion in freedom, it is that everyone share the same rights. And giving denonciation abilities over the physical bodies of people while others lower their heads more and more in fear of having the cops called on them for any reason that a sysop would consider good enough to launch an attack, is not exactly what I would call a collaborative encyclopedia.
I ask for rights to anyone here to keep privacy - whether they are sysops or not sysops.
I know developpers can see these information, but 1. it can't be helped and 2. I consider databases admin to be bound to an ethic, that should prevent them to reveal these kind of information (unless, of course, there is a severe breach in legality). If there is a legal issue (?), Brion or another of the developper can make it possible for the abuser to be stopped or whatever.
But I see no reason why a sysop - who common user are not really given the right to accept or refuse, in particular after sysophood is given - should be given this power over a perfectly acceptable editor. That is not normal to give sysop powers over a group of people just on fear that one makes something wrong.
The sysop role is to protect wikipedia against unacceptable aggression. This is not the role of a sysop to run after the people. Denonciation is not the role of a sysop. Read again what a sysop is.
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On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Erik Moeller wrote:
Mav-
That's certainly highly inappropriate on Wikipedia,
Oh?
...
You misunderstood Brion. He was referring to Michael's threats, not to determining the IP address (which he posted).
Quite right. I'm not sure how mav made that interpretation, particularly as I followed the statement WITH THE IP ADDRESS!
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)