Oliver Pereira wrote:
.... Perhaps the edit page should have a notice saying, "This edit will be attributed to you under the pseudonym [some unique identifier here]. If you do not wish to use that pseudonym, you may wish to register a user name or, if you already have one, log in." ....
I think that is a very good idea. Otherwise, as you have noted, allowing Anon edits isn't really in the spirit of the GNU FDL. The only other real alternative is to stop allowing Anon edits and, IMO, that is last thing we should do at this point (maybe when Wikipedia is a household word we can think about that but until then allowing anybody to edit without even having to log in has been a major source of snagging new contributors - cut that off and I fear that our attrition numbers will begin to exceed our recruiting numbers).
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
I think that is a very good idea. Otherwise, as you have noted, allowing Anon edits isn't really in the spirit of the GNU FDL.
I couldn't possibly disagree more, I think. *Disallowing* anon edits would not be in the spirit of the GNU FDL. I just don't know where this idea is coming from that the attribution requirement extends beyond the identification that someone actually gives us. It certainly doesn't come from the law, or from the license itself.
I say: the spirit and letter of GNU FDL are best served by doing *exactly* what we are doing. There's no tension at all, and indeed there *is* tension between any *other* alternative.
We are already doing, in this respect, *exactly* what the spirit and letter fo the GNU FDL require, and I really am quite confused by suggestions to the contrary!
--Jimbo
Jimmy Wales wrote:
I couldn't possibly disagree more, I think. *Disallowing* anon edits would not be in the spirit of the GNU FDL. I just don't know where this idea is coming from that the attribution requirement extends beyond the identification that someone actually gives us. It certainly doesn't come from the law, or from the license itself.
I'd tend to agree with this interpretation --- my reading of the GFDL is that it's informally saying "you have to keep the original attribution information, with the exception that you don't have to keep more than five authors". If somebody published a book anonymously under the GFDL, then presumably you could make derived versions of that book with no author attribution. At the very most, you could say "originally published anonymously." Which I think is the same situation here -- "this article contributed to by User2, JonDoe, and several anonymous authors."
-Mark
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Jimmy Wales wrote:
Daniel Mayer wrote:
I think that is a very good idea. Otherwise, as you have noted, allowing Anon edits isn't really in the spirit of the GNU FDL.
I couldn't possibly disagree more, I think. *Disallowing* anon edits would not be in the spirit of the GNU FDL.
Can you quote anything from the GFDL which suggests that anonymous edits are in keeping with its spirit? I can't see anything which even hints at that. In fact, since it explicitly talks of listing authors, it seems obvious to me that its spirit is the exact opposite. If I have overlooked anything in the license which suggests otherwise, please could you point me to the bit I have missed?
Oliver
+-------------------------------------------+ | Oliver Pereira | | Dept. of Electronics and Computer Science | | University of Southampton | | omp199@ecs.soton.ac.uk | +-------------------------------------------+
Oliver Pereira wrote:
Can you quote anything from the GFDL which suggests that anonymous edits are in keeping with its spirit? I can't see anything which even hints at that. In fact, since it explicitly talks of listing authors, it seems obvious to me that its spirit is the exact opposite. If I have overlooked anything in the license which suggests otherwise, please could you point me to the bit I have missed?
I don't agree that the 'presumption' works that way. The right of authors to write anonymously is unquestioned. So the presumption should be that it's perfectly o.k. for anonymous authors to release their work under the license *unless the license specifically forbids it*.
The license is silent on the matter, therefore, under general principles of freedom (in the sense of speech, not beer), which is the foundational principle of GNU, then anonymous authorship is just fine.
I can ask RMS if you really want me too, but I think it's highly HIGHLY unlikely that he would say "Oh, no, I didn't intend for people to write things anonyous under the FDL. The talk about authorship is supposed to imply that people are required to give their full name, address, and social security number before they can use the license!"
I just don't see it.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to speak freely, even anonymously. That's the spirit of GNU.
Going back into history, we see that the Founding Fathers of this country advocated their radical ideas of freedom through anonymous pamphlets. Freedom of speech, and privacy and anonymity, are closely linked in history.
I have no idea where you get the idea that the default assumption is that if the license doesn't explicitly permit people to write anonymously if they want, that it is forbidden. Freedom doesn't mean rules that say "whatever is not permitted is forbidden", it means that "whatever is not forbidden is permitted".
--Jimbo
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Jimmy Wales wrote:
The license is silent on the matter, therefore, under general principles of freedom (in the sense of speech, not beer), which is the foundational principle of GNU, then anonymous authorship is just fine.
I can ask RMS if you really want me too, but I think it's highly HIGHLY unlikely that he would say "Oh, no, I didn't intend for people to write things anonyous under the FDL. The talk about authorship is supposed to imply that people are required to give their full name, address, and social security number before they can use the license!"
My message was about pseudonyms, so full names, addresses, and social security numbers don't come into it.
Anyway, now that you've started referring to "the Founding Fathers of this country", I see that this may be as much a matter of culture as of logic. If the interpretation of the GFDL requires a grounding in American history, then I give up. And I expect you're right about Mr. Stallman's views. I've just had a look round his website.
But I should point out that just because the ideas of freedom of speech, and privacy and anonymity, are closely linked in American history, it doesn't mean that they are in truth. Privacy and anonymity are just personal barriers, and barriers are restrictions on freedom. This is not a statement about whether I think they are good or bad; I'm just pointing out that they are opposed to each other. Ah, isn't philosophy fun? :)
Oliver
+-------------------------------------------+ | Oliver Pereira | | Dept. of Electronics and Computer Science | | University of Southampton | | omp199@ecs.soton.ac.uk | +-------------------------------------------+