I created a new page, this time I did it right. Angela would be proud.
[[Wikipedia:anti-elitism]] is based on a couple of Internet articles that old guy, whatsisname, some philosophy professor who helped out for a few
months in Wikipedia's early days. Oh, yeah, Larry Sanger.
I was wondering where all this VFD-RFC-RFA stuff was really heading, so I dipped into MeatBall, and that led me to the social dynamics of wikis - which ended up with Larry's critique of Wikipedia's anti-elitism.
He sees it as causing our 2 biggest problems: 1. a perception of unreliability (justified or not) 2. an often unpleasant an even hostile working atmosphere
Well, I'm off to my 5:30 P.M. irc meeting. Do check out the proposed policy page, if you're interested in the big picture. Sanger's no slouch.
Ed Poor
Poor, Edmund W wrote:
I created a new page, this time I did it right. Angela would be proud.
[[Wikipedia:anti-elitism]] is based on a couple of Internet articles that old guy, whatsisname, some philosophy professor who helped out for a few
months in Wikipedia's early days. Oh, yeah, Larry Sanger.
I was wondering where all this VFD-RFC-RFA stuff was really heading, so I dipped into MeatBall, and that led me to the social dynamics of wikis - which ended up with Larry's critique of Wikipedia's anti-elitism.
He sees it as causing our 2 biggest problems:
- a perception of unreliability (justified or not)
- an often unpleasant an even hostile working atmosphere
Well, I'm off to my 5:30 P.M. irc meeting. Do check out the proposed policy page, if you're interested in the big picture. Sanger's no slouch.
Ed Poor _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Looks like an interesting topic, please don't delete the page before I get back from work and get a chance to look at it. :) just kidding Ed, definately looks like an interesting proposal.
-Jtkiefer
On Aug 5, 2005, at 2:51 PM, Poor, Edmund W wrote:
I created a new page, this time I did it right. Angela would be proud.
[[Wikipedia:anti-elitism]] is based on a couple of Internet articles that old guy, whatsisname, some philosophy professor who helped out for a few
months in Wikipedia's early days. Oh, yeah, Larry Sanger.
I was wondering where all this VFD-RFC-RFA stuff was really heading, so I dipped into MeatBall, and that led me to the social dynamics of wikis - which ended up with Larry's critique of Wikipedia's anti-elitism.
He sees it as causing our 2 biggest problems:
- a perception of unreliability (justified or not)
- an often unpleasant an even hostile working atmosphere
Larry Sanger did many good things for Wikipedia, set many important policies which have served us well. However, as anyone who tangled with him learned from experience, an "often unpleasant and even hostile working atmosphere" was often part of working with him. He did not respect other people and believed he could bulldoze them, based on his authority as a Wikipedia administrator and as an expert in academic philosophy. His contributions may have correctly parroted was is being taught in freshman philosophy courses, I grant that, but there is no doubt that perspective can be improved on.
Fred
Well, I'm off to my 5:30 P.M. irc meeting. Do check out the proposed policy page, if you're interested in the big picture. Sanger's no slouch.
Ed Poor _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Fred Bauder wrote:
Larry Sanger did many good things for Wikipedia, set many important policies which have served us well. However, as anyone who tangled with him learned from experience, an "often unpleasant and even hostile working atmosphere" was often part of working with him. He did not respect other people and believed he could bulldoze them, based on his authority as a Wikipedia administrator and as an expert in academic philosophy. His contributions may have correctly parroted was is being taught in freshman philosophy courses, I grant that, but there is no doubt that perspective can be improved on.
- From what I've heard - and I could be gravely mistaken - and I apologise if I am - Larry's approach was "I have more degrees than you, I made this whole thing happen, therefore I must be right".
Sounds exactly like the sort of elitism he warns against.
Again, I apologise in advance if I am wrong about this. Please correct me if I am. Don't leave me ignorant of the facts.
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
Alphax wrote:
- From what I've heard - and I could be gravely mistaken - and I apologise
if I am - Larry's approach was "I have more degrees than you, I made this whole thing happen, therefore I must be right".
Sounds exactly like the sort of elitism he warns against.
First, Larry warns us against "anti-elitism" not against "elitism". He's an advocate of elitism.
I think your summary of his approach is unfair to him as well. Larry would react very badly to the notion that he would ever say "I have more degrees than you, etc." That's not like him at all.
Larry and I have our disagreements but I feel that his impact in the early years was substantial and should be respected.
--Jimbo
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Jimmy Wales wrote:
Alphax wrote:
- From what I've heard - and I could be gravely mistaken - and I apologise
if I am - Larry's approach was "I have more degrees than you, I made this whole thing happen, therefore I must be right".
Sounds exactly like the sort of elitism he warns against.
First, Larry warns us against "anti-elitism" not against "elitism". He's an advocate of elitism.
Ah.
I think your summary of his approach is unfair to him as well. Larry would react very badly to the notion that he would ever say "I have more degrees than you, etc." That's not like him at all.
As I said, I hoped someone would correct me if I was wrong. Again, I apologise.
Larry and I have our disagreements but I feel that his impact in the early years was substantial and should be respected.
Agreed.
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
The wiki has some very serious problems, but anti-elitism is '''not''' very high on the list. We have a much bigger problem w wiki-democracy, and the cliques which dominate articles in which they have a vested POV.
Jack (Sam Spade)
That does exaggerate the situation. He was sometimes rude when he thought he was dealing with poor quality work.
Fred
On Aug 5, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Alphax wrote:
- From what I've heard - and I could be gravely mistaken - and I
apologise if I am - Larry's approach was "I have more degrees than you, I made this whole thing happen, therefore I must be right".