On 05/09/07, Flame Viper <flameviper12(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Nobody feed the troll.

You know, I sympathize with you - really, I do. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. However, I also point out that I've been a user for about a year now, have never received a (legitimate) warning, have never been called a troll, and I get along within the Wiki policies pretty well. Some of 'em I don't like, so I take a run at changing them, within process. Some people I don't particularly like, so I ignore them. So, an observation from someone who doesn't know you, and hasn't looked at your record in great detail: what's the difference b/w you and I? You push the envelope. You poke people. You see a spot and stick your finger on it to see what happens. You can't just ignore someone, you want to make sure they KNOW you're there. When you do that, you get into trouble. Just an observation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Flame Viper To: wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: [WikiEN-l] The more I think about my ban from Wikipedia,the more I realize how wrong it was. Let's start out with a general explanation. I am http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Flameviper . I had been contributing since May 2005 or so, with numerous crapstacles. I had been banned/unbanned about 3 times, etc, etc. I had been editing pages and such for about 3 months since unbanning when I saw a comment from the user Elaragirl. I went to her talk page to respond, and read the linked document EL:TEACUP, which (if I recall correctly) is still linked to from her talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Elaragirl). Anyways, I said something to the effect of "you're either going to be my friend or a pain in the ass, I hope for both our sakes it will be the former". Of course, both Elaragirl and I (as later cleared up via email) understood the point of the message and neither of us were offended (I asked her). However, I was banned per the personal attack policy. On AN/I, Ryanpostlewait (sorry if I spelled it wrong Ryan) posted an e-mail from me (which I thought had been private) which said something along the lines of me being a troll and trying to be good and not get banned. Of course, I meant to say something completely different, but nobody asked me about it again, and I was summarily banned. A couple months later, I came back with another account named Two-Sixteen. This time, however, I was friendly (perhaps overly so) to everyone I saw. I made great (perhaps overly exaggerated) efforts to not offend anyone, and I got along fine with the general Wikipedia population. I edited pages, I categorized things, I didn't really do anything spectacular. One day, someone raised the issue of the account Flameviper being unblocked (maybe it was me, I don't remember). I didn't have a crusade for Flameviper to be unblocked, I simply suggested the idea and left the discussion alone (although I said "I agree" on the noticeboard). It was generally agreed that Flameviper had not done anything wrong in the first place, and so that account was unblocked. At this point, "Flameviper" was unblocked (although the account's past was still suspicious) and Two-Sixteen had never received so much as a warning for anything. The next day, I logged on and found that Jpgordon had performed a checkuser (although without any type of process, even though I remember a lengthy process to approve requests for checkuser) and found that Flameviper and Two-Sixteen were the same person. Two-Sixteen was indef-blocked immediately for being "disruptive" (although the account in question had never disrupted anything). Flameviper was indef-blocked immediately for "using a sockpuppet to manipulate an unblock" (which is odd, since the administrator unblocked on his own judgement). Now here is my opinion of the entire incident. My statement in the e-mail to Ryan (which was something along the lines of "I enjoy Internet drama" was somehow twisted into "I like to create Internet drama" and that was further bastardized into "I am a troll". And when whoever it was offered to be my mentor or whatever, I accepted the offer, which was somehow twisted into "I decline the offer". And again, TROLL. I *personally* find being banned offensive to me, but I at least realize that by banning me the admins aren't trying to be offensive and that they're just doing what they think is right. And I respect your right to have your own opinion and not sugar-coat everything you say so it won't be construed as a "PERSONAL ATTACK OH MY GOD". Because furthermore, what I said on Elaragirl's talk page was more along the lines of "When I meet someone with a similar personality to mine, we either agree on everything and it's a blast, or we have a massive conflict because we have differing opinions and we both have the rock-colid attitude that nothing is going to change our minds, and most of our decisions will conflict with one another's, and we'll end up hating each other. I hope for both of our sakes that we can learn to get along". But instead of saying that, I contracted it to "You're either going to be my friend or a pain in the ass, I hope it's going to be the first one". And because I didn't carefully sugarcoat all the pointy phrasings of my comment, it was taken as a "personal attack" by people who it wasn't even directed at (nobody even asked Elaragirl if she was offended or not), and I was banned. I'm sick of talking for an entire damn paragraph when I could say the same thing in three words, and although I realize the policies on "trolling" and "personal attacks" were intended to protect innocent users from actual trolls and flamers, they're becoming utterly ridiculous and a nuisance to everyone involved. I joined Wikipedia to write an encyclopedia, not to have a damn soap opera every time I say something. --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

You had two accounts. You used one to recommend the other be unblocked without making it clear you controlled both. That's abusive use of sockpuppets, and the blocks are valid.