I sent this to the foundation list and CCed to WikiEN, but it was posted on foundation-l twice. How can I avoid this behaviour?
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On Tuesday 26 October 2004 22:26, David Gerard wrote:
what was your Wikipedia username again?
The reason I have not answered that question is because it was first asked by a person who offended me ("as faulty as your logic", 23 October 2004). Although I have ignored his e-mail address, thanks to your webarchive it came to my attention that he repeats his attacks: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-October/031751.html
Please note that I am a bit touchy and any kind of personal attack is not compatible with my culture and my education. I have no problem with people who disagree with me, but I have zero tolerance for things who engage in personal attacks.
That said, I also don't understand why I need to answer this question. Is it some kind of policy in Wikipedia to say your user names in emails? I notice many people post without mentioning their usernames and I wonder why you picked me specifically.
Do you in fact edit on Wikipedia at all?
Does it matter? I cannot understand why you ask this question. Are your mailing lists restricted only to your members? I don't think so, because it was very easy for me to register (if that's not the intended behaviour, you need to configure your Mailman installation).
You can find me in many mailing lists or fora, including FSF-GNU/GNOME/CC/AMD, and I am lurking on many other mailing lists and communities, while I have also joined projects such as Drupal.org and OpenFormats.org and very soon I will join KDE. Slashdot has published stories written by me (KDE/FSF's WIWO...) and my karma there is Good. My university dissertation is on wikis. I notice some people refer to me as "he/she" and I wonder whether they have noticed who am I.
I was lurking here for some time before I decided to start posting, so I had accumulated many possible suggestions and ideas about Wikipedia. Since I decided to start posting, I started remembering whatever I had thought about all that time, so perhaps some people disliked me because of the initial quantity of my postings. Although I have already asked whether anybody wants me to stop posting, nobody said something like that, so I understand that I should be welcome here - but I still notice that some participants seem to dislike me and I cannot understand why.
I don't really have enough time to edit much on Wikipedia. I have my own projects and soon/hopefully will have my own nonprofit organisation. So, although my community website now is still very new (just opened this August, but already serving more than 65 thousand hits per month), it will certainly become very known and important in the near future. My interests in the Wikipedia community are mostly establishing public relations, helping each other to improve our community policies and sharing software development tips and practices. I mostly want communication with Wikipedia decision makers, the Board and the development team, so that we can find ways to cooperate as independent separate projects. So, I think it should be obvious that I participate in your mailing lists as a representative of a friendly website which seeks to have relations, cooperation and knowledge sharing with Wikimedia. But if WMF does not wish to cooperate or thinks I am a "competitor", then you can just say so and I will leave.
I suspect that some people may dislike me because I have my own wikis. Please try to understand that I am not a "competitor" of Wikipedia. I have written interesting articles under the GFDL that you can copy if you like (by providing proper attribution under all the terms of GFDL - please include the authors' names in the article). See for example this article of NerdyPC.org, my knowledge base wiki on computer hardware and the Information Technology industry: http://nerdypc.wikinerds.org/index.php/AMD_Opteron - note the most recent version under development is at http://nerdypc.wikinerds.org/index.php/Test:AMD_Opteron
Finally, I would like to know how we can implement interwiki links to each other and whether WMF is interested in this kind of linking.
NSK wrote:
Does it matter? I cannot understand why you ask this question. Are your mailing lists restricted only to your members? I don't think so, because it was very easy for me to register (if that's not the intended behaviour, you need to configure your Mailman installation).
There is certainly no prohibition or even active discouragement of non-Wikipedian posting to the lists, but it's natural that your ideas will be treated more skeptically than those of someone who is demostrably familiar with the community. Someone who comes in and suggests many changes without being familiar with the way the system currently works is quite a bit different than someone who suggests changes after using the system extensively and determining that it has some shortcomings.
-Mark
On Wednesday 27 October 2004 03:24, Delirium wrote:
it's natural that your ideas will be treated more skeptically than those of someone who is demostrably familiar with the community
Hi,
I think it would be a good idea if people could examine ideas and decide on their usefulness without considering who proposed these ideas.
Consider for example that it is possible that a well-known community member may say something wrong and a newcomer can say something useful.
So, although some people may be somewhat sceptical seeing a non-familiar name in their To: headers, they should examine the ideas and not the poster; or at least this is my opinion.
How are you hurt if you don't come out and admit you don't edit Wikipedia much, if at all? We won't hurt you. We're just curious. We aren't judging your proposals based on who they're coming from, but if they sound ridiculous, then the way we look at them does depend on who you are. If it was, say, any known active Wikipedian, then we'd know for sure that something has to be corrected. But musings from someone who is not active on Wikipedia are likely to be way off.
From your postings, I think we've already established you aren't an active editor - that's okay with me. But you should know that trying to cover this up will only hurt your reputation instead of enhancing it.
John Lee ([[User:Johnleemk]])
NSK wrote:
On Wednesday 27 October 2004 03:24, Delirium wrote:
it's natural that your ideas will be treated more skeptically than those of someone who is demostrably familiar with the community
Hi,
I think it would be a good idea if people could examine ideas and decide on their usefulness without considering who proposed these ideas.
Consider for example that it is possible that a well-known community member may say something wrong and a newcomer can say something useful.
So, although some people may be somewhat sceptical seeing a non-familiar name in their To: headers, they should examine the ideas and not the poster; or at least this is my opinion.
I'm sorry to have to say this ;-) but I agree with John.
Communities resent it when outsiders tell them what to do unless they have specifically asked for that outsider's opinion. Communities build upon more than mere logic, but also on trust and familiarity; it's what "paying one's dues" is all about. I may vehemently disagree with certain of John's positions, but I have a sense of knowing what to expect. The bare right to do something is just a tool; it's an entry point into the community. Your suggestions may be perfectly correct, and indeed some of the observations may carry with them a clarity unencumbered by the community's prejudices, but that's not enough to ensure that the community adopts your ideas.
When an outsider becomes insistent on promoting his views his credibility and that of his views are diminished. He has no stake in the outcome, and can safely watch the results from outside, and in the event that the attempt to adopt those ideas fails he can retreat into the very safe excuse that "they misinterpreted my ideas."
Your idea to create better co-operation among various wikis is commendable, but your means of promotion is not designed to draw supporters. Ec
John Lee wrote:
How are you hurt if you don't come out and admit you don't edit Wikipedia much, if at all? We won't hurt you. We're just curious. We aren't judging your proposals based on who they're coming from, but if they sound ridiculous, then the way we look at them does depend on who you are. If it was, say, any known active Wikipedian, then we'd know for sure that something has to be corrected. But musings from someone who is not active on Wikipedia are likely to be way off.
From your postings, I think we've already established you aren't an active editor - that's okay with me. But you should know that trying to cover this up will only hurt your reputation instead of enhancing it.
NSK wrote:
On Wednesday 27 October 2004 03:24, Delirium wrote:
it's natural that your ideas will be treated more skeptically than those of someone who is demostrably familiar with the community
I think it would be a good idea if people could examine ideas and decide on their usefulness without considering who proposed these ideas.
Consider for example that it is possible that a well-known community member may say something wrong and a newcomer can say something useful.
So, although some people may be somewhat sceptical seeing a non-familiar name in their To: headers, they should examine the ideas and not the poster; or at least this is my opinion.
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:54:21 +0800 John Lee johnleemk@gawab.com wrote:
How are you hurt if you don't come out and admit you don't edit Wikipedia much, if at all? We won't hurt you. We're just curious. We aren't judging your proposals based on who they're coming from, but if they sound ridiculous, then the way we look at them does depend on who you are. If it was, say, any known active Wikipedian, then we'd know for sure that something has to be corrected. But musings from someone who is not active on Wikipedia are likely to be way off.
From your postings, I think we've already established you aren't an active editor - that's okay with me. But you should know that trying to cover this up will only hurt your reputation instead of enhancing it.
John Lee ([[User:Johnleemk]])
NSK wrote:
On Wednesday 27 October 2004 03:24, Delirium wrote:
it's natural that your ideas will be treated more skeptically than those of someone
who is
demostrably familiar with the community
Hi,
I think it would be a good idea if people could examine
ideas and decide on their usefulness without considering who proposed these ideas.
Consider for example that it is possible that a
well-known community member may say something wrong and a newcomer can say something useful.
So, although some people may be somewhat sceptical
seeing a non-familiar name in their To: headers, they should examine the ideas and not the poster; or at least this is my opinion.
thanks a lot for the constructive criticism.i will take
heed of all of it.sorry if any of my ideas pissed anyone off.since i am not a regular wikipedian i think i will shut my mouth in future.
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