Do we have any way to issue Wikipedians press badges? There are a lot of events that could be covered by Wikipedian photographers that would allow the whole mess of copyrights... since Wikipedian photographers are likely to copyleft than copyright....
Wikipedia could issue them, I suppose. The question is whether or not they'd be accepted by whatever event you're trying to photograph. Your credentials are only as good as the organization that issued them.
If you walk up with a credential around your neck and a flack asks what news organization you're with, and you say Wikipedia, you may get booted back to the cheap seats. You may not. It just depends. Also, some organizations have rigid credentialing rules (like the U.S. Congress, which background checks everybody and issues its own special credentials, or most metro police departments). At small events, you can wear a handwritten tag around your neck and as long as you look like you belong, generally nobody bothers you. It's all about circumstance and place, really.
Kate (girl reporter)
--- "Jason Y. Lee" jylee@cs.ucr.edu wrote:
Do we have any way to issue Wikipedians press badges? There are a lot of events that could be covered by Wikipedian photographers that would allow the whole mess of copyrights... since Wikipedian photographers are likely to copyleft than copyright....
-- Jason Y. Lee AKA AllyUnion _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Jason Y. Lee wrote:
Do we have any way to issue Wikipedians press badges? There are a lot of events that could be covered by Wikipedian photographers that would allow the whole mess of copyrights... since Wikipedian photographers are likely to copyleft than copyright....
Actually, use Wikinews as the excuse, not Wikipedia. Not only is this closer to being eligible for a press badge, but also it will mean the images will be public domain! :-)
Timwi
Timwi wrote:
Jason Y. Lee wrote:
Do we have any way to issue Wikipedians press badges? There are a lot of events that could be covered by Wikipedian photographers that would allow the whole mess of copyrights... since Wikipedian photographers are likely to copyleft than copyright....
Actually, use Wikinews as the excuse, not Wikipedia. Not only is this closer to being eligible for a press badge, but also it will mean the images will be public domain! :-)
Err, no it won't. PD isn't the licensing for Wikinews any more; it moved to CC-BY-SA 2.5 a while ago. And it wouldn't "mean that", it just that we would unnecessarily (and in many countries, illegally) force users to rescind their copyright claims, and so reduce the number of images that could possibly be used.
Yours,
James D. Forrester wrote:
Timwi wrote:
Actually, use Wikinews as the excuse, not Wikipedia. Not only is this closer to being eligible for a press badge, but also it will mean the images will be public domain! :-)
Err, no it won't. PD isn't the licensing for Wikinews any more; it moved to CC-BY-SA 2.5 a while ago.
Ah, OK, I didn't know that.
I still maintain that press-badge-generating bureaucracy will be easier to penetrate with Wikinews as an excews - er, excuse :-) - than Wikipedia.
en.Wikinews has a process for "accrediting" Wikinewsies, though there has been some debate concerning our authority to accredit anyone and our authority to issue badges using the Wikinews logo.
See the following: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Accreditation_policy
-N.
On 11/1/05, Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Ah, OK, I didn't know that.
I still maintain that press-badge-generating bureaucracy will be easier to penetrate with Wikinews as an excews - er, excuse :-) - than Wikipedia.
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From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Timwi
I still maintain that press-badge-generating bureaucracy will be easier to penetrate with Wikinews as an excews - er, excuse :-) - than Wikipedia.
You are correct, but who will issue the Wikicredentials to show p-b-g bureaucrats? If it is automatic ("This is to introduce HindBrain, a certified Wikireporter since [[2 November]] [[2005]]") then anyone with access to the web can get credentialled and hang out in the press pavillion noshing on the caviar that is customarily served to reptiles of the press. It will turn into a rort.
Peter (Skyring)
Even if it were not automatic, it would be worth absolutely zilch by itself.
Accreditation is by definition a somewhat exclusive and elitist activity. It is not compatible with the ideals that "anyone can be a reporter" or "anyone can be an editor." If "anyone can be accredited" then such accreditation becomes as meaningful as a mail-order PhD.
FF
On 11/1/05, Peter Mackay peter.mackay@bigpond.com wrote:
From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Timwi
I still maintain that press-badge-generating bureaucracy will be easier to penetrate with Wikinews as an excews - er, excuse :-) - than Wikipedia.
You are correct, but who will issue the Wikicredentials to show p-b-g bureaucrats? If it is automatic ("This is to introduce HindBrain, a certified Wikireporter since [[2 November]] [[2005]]") then anyone with access to the web can get credentialled and hang out in the press pavillion noshing on the caviar that is customarily served to reptiles of the press. It will turn into a rort.
Peter (Skyring)
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From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Fastfission Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 05:19 To: English Wikipedia Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Press badges
Even if it were not automatic, it would be worth absolutely zilch by itself.
Accreditation is by definition a somewhat exclusive and elitist activity. It is not compatible with the ideals that "anyone can be a reporter" or "anyone can be an editor." If "anyone can be accredited" then such accreditation becomes as meaningful as a mail-order PhD.
WikiNews has a policy (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Accreditation_policy) which seems to work. Not everyone is a Wikipedia (or WikiNews) editor and not every editor gets accreditation - just those who get a consensus on application.
The big benefit would be closer photographer access to events and photo-opportunities, resulting in photographs which aren't subject to the usual restrictions if we source them elsewhere.
Peter (Skyring)
On 11/3/05, Peter Mackay peter.mackay@bigpond.com wrote:
WikiNews has a policy (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Accreditation_policy) which seems to work. Not everyone is a Wikipedia (or WikiNews) editor and not every editor gets accreditation - just those who get a consensus on application.
The big benefit would be closer photographer access to events and photo-opportunities, resulting in photographs which aren't subject to the usual restrictions if we source them elsewhere.
As I understand it, one only gets closer access if the accreditation is recognized by the event coordinator -- my point is that I doubt they would be. "Have been an unproblematic member of a website for a few weeks" is a pretty low bar to set for who counts as a journalist; I don't think most places are going to buy that. If we set the bar high enough for them to recognize it, it would kill the point of Wikinews. Ergo, the problem -- if we accredit in the spirit of Wikinews, then it would have no worth in the eyes of the outside world; if we accredit in the spirit of the outside world, then it is incompatible with the point of Wikinews.
Of course, if they *do* recognize such passes, then the argument is proven wrong. But I'd be surprised if they were worth much. But I'll qualify that by also noting that times are changing a bit -- bloggers are issued press passes, I hear -- and so I could be wrong, if not now, then in the future.
FF
On 11/4/05, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/3/05, Peter Mackay peter.mackay@bigpond.com wrote:
WikiNews has a policy (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Accreditation_policy) which seems to work. Not everyone is a Wikipedia (or WikiNews) editor and not every editor gets accreditation - just those who get a consensus on application.
The big benefit would be closer photographer access to events and photo-opportunities, resulting in photographs which aren't subject to the usual restrictions if we source them elsewhere.
As I understand it, one only gets closer access if the accreditation is recognized by the event coordinator -- my point is that I doubt they would be. "Have been an unproblematic member of a website for a few weeks" is a pretty low bar to set for who counts as a journalist; I don't think most places are going to buy that. If we set the bar high enough for them to recognize it, it would kill the point of Wikinews. Ergo, the problem -- if we accredit in the spirit of Wikinews, then it would have no worth in the eyes of the outside world; if we accredit in the spirit of the outside world, then it is incompatible with the point of Wikinews.
Of course, if they *do* recognize such passes, then the argument is proven wrong. But I'd be surprised if they were worth much. But I'll qualify that by also noting that times are changing a bit -- bloggers are issued press passes, I hear -- and so I could be wrong, if not now, then in the future.
FF _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
We've had this discussion quite a bit on Wikinews -- accreditation does you little good unless a press pass is also issued by whatever event/organization/governmental agency you wish to cover. Some have discussed a meta press corps -- would the bar be higher there than on Wikinews? Our concept of an accredited wikinewsie is still citizen journalist. This is a radical concept, of course, and I'm not sure the world is ready to deal with it. -N.
--- Nathan Reed nathanreed@gmail.com wrote:
We've had this discussion quite a bit on Wikinews -- accreditation does you little good unless a press pass is also issued by whatever event/organization/governmental agency you wish to cover. Some have discussed a meta press corps -- would the bar be higher there than on Wikinews? Our concept of an accredited wikinewsie is still citizen journalist. This is a radical concept, of course, and I'm not sure the world is ready to deal with it. -N.
A news organization, by definition, is an organized newsgathering entity with some degree of accountability. Press passes offer people some degree of authority and access, and likewise suggest that individuals have demonstrated professional credentials.
Just throwing this out there: I dont see how any anti-credentialist organization can be in the business of giving out credentials.
SV
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From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of steve v
--- Nathan Reed nathanreed@gmail.com wrote:
We've had this discussion quite a bit on Wikinews -- accreditation does you little good unless a press pass is also issued by whatever event/organization/governmental agency you wish to cover. Some have discussed a meta press corps -- would the bar be higher
there than on
Wikinews? Our concept of an accredited wikinewsie is still citizen journalist. This is a radical concept, of course, and I'm
not sure the
world is ready to deal with it. -N.
A news organization, by definition, is an organized newsgathering entity with some degree of accountability. Press passes offer people some degree of authority and access, and likewise suggest that individuals have demonstrated professional credentials.
Just throwing this out there: I dont see how any anti-credentialist organization can be in the business of giving out credentials.
In the same wiki-way that everything else works here. The community decides who, based on their contributions, is able to present a professional face to the real world and a useful contribution to Wikipedia/WikiNews. I use "professional" here in the sense of "adhering to industry standards", rather than "being paid for".
I don't know how it is in other countries, but in Australia journalists aren't licensed. Anyone can be a journalist. Freelancers are common.
As noted previously, Wikipedia is gaining a certain measure of respect and exposure in the general community. We don't need to sell our encyclopaedic credentials, just our audience. Nobody considers tabloid newspapers to hold to high standards of journalistic integrity, but they command wide readerships, and their journalists find little difficulty in gaining access to events. All we really need do is say "Google such-and such a subject" and Wikipedia is generally in the first ten entries, so we've got that sort of leverage to use with people who are after media exposure.
And realistically, it's a win-win situation. We get information and (most importantly) free-use photographs, and the organisation or event gets web exposure that they just can't buy.
Peter (Skyring)
Err, no it won't. PD isn't the licensing for Wikinews any more; it moved to CC-BY-SA 2.5 a while ago.
It's CC-BY, not BY-SA. The license doesn't require share alike, which makes the content usable in Wikipedia (though not vice versa).
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Copyright
Angela.