And now... for something completely different.
The GFDL is a document with great goals, great principles, and I agree with all of the basic elements of Free Content. Let's just get that on the table first. I've read quite a lot of Stallman's texts, and works by other players in these sorts of debates like Lessig, Raymond, Boyle, etc., and I think I understand the terms of the debates over this, and some of the legal aspects, though I don't claim to be an expert in either domain.
But there are some ways in which it is not ideal in its implementation. Some of these have been gone over in some detail on here, but the basic summary is that it is a license made primarily for software manuals and is not always best adapted for Wikipedia's specific technical and informational purposes. There are, to say the least, sections which could be clarified, improved, or dropped altogether. And there are also places where we could imagine improvements added (such as allowing authors to be dis-associated with re-used content if used in a way which would be defamatory to them -- the old case of the Holocaust deniers using our articles as a base for their own literature and then claiming that Jimbo was an author).
But how to escape? The GFDL is viral -- once you license something as it, you can't undo it. What is made GFDL stays GFDL -- that's the purpose anyway. And, in principle, I agree with that: the goal of this is to make sure that what was "free content" not only stays "free content," but generates more "free content." And it improves Wikipedia's credibility to be committed to a license maintained by an external source: nobody can claim that someday WP will turn around, change its license, and suddenly have proprietary content. In order to accomplish that at present, we'd have to do a hostile takeover of the Free Software Foundation. Let's assume, our of the principles of practicality and good faith, that this will never be an option on the table.
So how to escape?, he asks again. I've been puzzling over this for some time (think of it as on of my hobbies, the sort of thing I muse about in the shower). Here are some thoughts I had.
The idea of multi-licensing has been pursued on the project at different times, whereby contributions are indicates as being licenseable under the GFDL or another, similarly "free" license (i.e., CC-BY-SA or CC-SA). There was also the big push, awhile ago, to get users to put templates on their user pages indicating that their present, future, and, I think, *past* contributions were multi-licensed as well -- I believe it had to do with making certain articles compatible with WikiCities' license. The basic idea was to run a bot to find all of the "authors" the articles in question and see if they would agree to this. I don't know how this worked out, but it was an interesting idea.
Based on this principle: can one really ask users to re-(multi)-license their PAST contributions? That is, can I say, "All those contributions I said were under the GFDL? Well, now I want them to also be GFDL or CC-BY-SA." Legally, I'm suspicious, but I'm also not a lawyer.
If this principle works -- couldn't we change the terms of use? That is, instead of every edit being licenseable under the GFDL, couldn't we change it to say that "this contribution, and any other contribution I have previously made, is licenseable under the GFDL or any other similarly 'free' license"? It wouldn't necessarily get *all* of the content out of the GFDL but, if we assume that many of the editors now were editors previously, it would potentially "free up" a very large amount of content. If an individual editor objected to this for some reason (I can't imagine why, but let's just say they did), then they'd be prohibited from editing, the same way we do when people suddenly claim that the intent to retain copyright on their edits.
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
Just a thought, not a clarion call. Getting out of the GFDL may not even be necessary, but I think thinking about it as an option might be worthwhile (though again, not because I disagree with its principles in the slightest, just some aspects of its implementation).
I'm very interested in what others will have to say about this, and hopefully it will be seen in the spirit I intend it, which is more on the level of inquiry than policy.
FF
On 02/03/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
Based on this principle: can one really ask users to re-(multi)-license their PAST contributions? That is, can I say, "All those contributions I said were under the GFDL? Well, now I want them to also be GFDL or CC-BY-SA." Legally, I'm suspicious, but I'm also not a lawyer.
It seems acceptable to me.
I make an edit to a page. This edit is utterly and irrevocably copyrighted by me (assume, for now, that it's a nontrivial edit). However, I also implicitly release that edit under the GFDL.
I am, however, completely at liberty to reuse that edit *outside* the terms of the GFDL, since I personally own the copyright; this would include, for example, deeming it to be licensed under a different license *so long as I did not revoke the GFDL*. The GFDL is a license, not an abdication of copyright.
Does that make sense? Consider a non-commercial CC license - it doesn't mean the copyright holder can't make money off it, it just means that no-one *else* can.
-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
On 3/2/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
In order to accomplish that at present, we'd have to do a hostile takeover of the Free Software Foundation.
And the downside of doing that would be?
If this principle works -- couldn't we change the terms of use? That is, instead of every edit being licenseable under the GFDL, couldn't we change it to say that "this contribution, and any other contribution I have previously made, is licenseable under the GFDL or any other similarly 'free' license"? It wouldn't necessarily get *all* of the content out of the GFDL but, if we assume that many of the editors now were editors previously, it would potentially "free up" a very large amount of content.
Derivative works. One editor per article would be enough to really mess things up.
-- geni
On 3/2/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Derivative works. One editor per article would be enough to really mess things up.
That's true, and would be a serious snag for, no doubt, many articles -- it also does not help this that many of those which are "most important" for encyclopedia are also the ones with the most edits. Though I wonder -- if an edit is reverted, does the editor still have the ability to claim authorship? I can see different answers to that, none of which I'm completely satisfied.
At the very least, a change to the terms of use would at least prevent the issue for any articles created from that point forward, and would focus the problem on issues relating to editors who no longer contribute.
FF
On 3/2/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/2/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Derivative works. One editor per article would be enough to really mess things up.
That's true, and would be a serious snag for, no doubt, many articles -- it also does not help this that many of those which are "most important" for encyclopedia are also the ones with the most edits. Though I wonder -- if an edit is reverted, does the editor still have the ability to claim authorship? I can see different answers to that, none of which I'm completely satisfied.
Under GFDL yes however they probably don't hold copyright (you know original content creativity that stuff).
At the very least, a change to the terms of use would at least prevent the issue for any articles created from that point forward, and would focus the problem on issues relating to editors who no longer contribute.
FF
It is editors who are dead that would be the real issue.
Fastfission wrote:
-- it also does not help this that many of those which are "most important" for encyclopedia are also the ones with the most edits. Though I wonder -- if an edit is reverted, does the editor still have the ability to claim authorship? I can see different answers to that, none of which I'm completely satisfied.
If an editor has not written any part of the current article, they don't really have a claim to authorship of that article. (The licensing issue is actually one of the better reasons for mass-reverting trolls' edits. With the improved revision deletion coming, it becomes somewhat easier to handle these things, too...) "Not written any part" shouldn't be taken too literally, however- just replacing someone's words inline doesn't automatically make their claim go away.
If you look in depth at the history of a lot of our very-heavily-edited articles, after a while they start actually going downhill in quality, losing consistency and readability. Other times, we find a copyvio in the history somewhere. This leads to someone starting a clean rewrite at a /Temp page, which then replaces the old version. This method could productively be used with articles with improperly licensed contributions as well, and if done on the cruftiest articles, can improve overall quality.
Of course, before replacing content, we should go to everyone we can still find who has live contributions in the database and get them to do the CC-template-thing (and also the {{WikimediaTextLicensing}} template, if possible) (see [[en:User:Jake Nelson]] for mine, for example).
Changing the submit text for present and future contribs seems easy and solid to me- changing it for past ones, I'd hold off on until it's made clear with people...
-- Jake Nelson [[en:User:Jake Nelson]]
On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Fastfission wrote:
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
A revised version of the GFDL wouldn't help us because Wikipedia would still be licensed under the old version.
On 3/2/06, Philip Welch wikipedia@philwelch.net wrote:
On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Fastfission wrote:
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
A revised version of the GFDL wouldn't help us because Wikipedia would still be licensed under the old version.
Wikipedia is licensed under all versions of the GFDL starting with version 1.2. From [[Wikipedia:Copyrights]]:
"Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under the Gnu Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation"
This means that if GFDL 2.0 comes out as a verbatim copy of the Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution Share-Alike license, then all of Wikipedia is effectively dual-licensed under GFDL 1.2 and CC-BY-SA 2.5, and anyone re-using the content can pick whichever license they want.
-- Mark [[User:Carnildo]]
You can't suddenly change the agreement by which things were licensed. If we were to change the GFDL to become PD, lots of people will want to retract edits it applies to, because that's not what they agreed to when they edited it at the time.
Mgm
On 3/2/06, Mark Wagner carnildo@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/2/06, Philip Welch wikipedia@philwelch.net wrote:
On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Fastfission wrote:
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
A revised version of the GFDL wouldn't help us because Wikipedia would still be licensed under the old version.
Wikipedia is licensed under all versions of the GFDL starting with version 1.2. From [[Wikipedia:Copyrights]]:
"Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under the Gnu Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation"
This means that if GFDL 2.0 comes out as a verbatim copy of the Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution Share-Alike license, then all of Wikipedia is effectively dual-licensed under GFDL 1.2 and CC-BY-SA 2.5, and anyone re-using the content can pick whichever license they want.
-- Mark [[User:Carnildo]] _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Technically, they did agree to that -- part of the GFDL is its ability to be updated (by the FSF, not us). But I agree that people would probably feel uncomfortable about it if it changed radically in any substantial way, which is a major element to watch out for in a project like this which relies upon community enthusiasm.
FF
On 3/3/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
You can't suddenly change the agreement by which things were licensed. If we were to change the GFDL to become PD, lots of people will want to retract edits it applies to, because that's not what they agreed to when they edited it at the time.
Mgm
On 3/2/06, Mark Wagner carnildo@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/2/06, Philip Welch wikipedia@philwelch.net wrote:
On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Fastfission wrote:
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
A revised version of the GFDL wouldn't help us because Wikipedia would still be licensed under the old version.
Wikipedia is licensed under all versions of the GFDL starting with version 1.2. From [[Wikipedia:Copyrights]]:
"Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under the Gnu Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation"
This means that if GFDL 2.0 comes out as a verbatim copy of the Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution Share-Alike license, then all of Wikipedia is effectively dual-licensed under GFDL 1.2 and CC-BY-SA 2.5, and anyone re-using the content can pick whichever license they want.
-- Mark [[User:Carnildo]] _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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The thing is, even if we did agree to the GFDL, the Wikimedia Foundation has already had its rights under the GFDL revoked, because they don't follow the license (and the license is automatically revoked when you break it).
Anthony
On 3/3/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
Technically, they did agree to that -- part of the GFDL is its ability to be updated (by the FSF, not us). But I agree that people would probably feel uncomfortable about it if it changed radically in any substantial way, which is a major element to watch out for in a project like this which relies upon community enthusiasm.
FF
On 3/3/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
You can't suddenly change the agreement by which things were licensed. If we were to change the GFDL to become PD, lots of people will want to retract edits it applies to, because that's not what they agreed to when they edited it at the time.
Mgm
On 3/2/06, Mark Wagner carnildo@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/2/06, Philip Welch wikipedia@philwelch.net wrote:
On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Fastfission wrote:
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
A revised version of the GFDL wouldn't help us because Wikipedia would still be licensed under the old version.
Wikipedia is licensed under all versions of the GFDL starting with version 1.2. From [[Wikipedia:Copyrights]]:
"Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under the Gnu Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation"
This means that if GFDL 2.0 comes out as a verbatim copy of the Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution Share-Alike license, then all of Wikipedia is effectively dual-licensed under GFDL 1.2 and CC-BY-SA 2.5, and anyone re-using the content can pick whichever license they want.
-- Mark [[User:Carnildo]] _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
It's critical to remember that we're the 800-pound gorilla in the room of users of the GFDL.
I would bet that statistically speaking, Wikipedia is just about the only user of GFDL. Perhaps also GNU textbooks?
In other words, we should be able to dictate terms (in a nice way) with Stallman to get what we want -- that is, compatibility with CC-SA. Or, as Mav put it earlier, "What we really need is a GNU FDL 2.0 with a clause stating something to the effect of 'Any documents licensed under the GNU FDL 2.0 or any later version with no Invariant Sections, with no Front-Cover Texts, and with no Back-Cover Texts can also be licensed under the GNU Free Content License.'"
In the meantime, I recommend a serious project to engage in cross-licensing by a) Changing "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL." to "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL and CC-SA." so that all edits henceforth are cross-licensed. b) Encourage the manual cross-licensing project of old contributions: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Guide_to_the_CC_dual-license#List_of_dual_lic...
On 02/03/06, Mark Wagner carnildo@gmail.com wrote:
"Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under the Gnu Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation"
This means that if GFDL 2.0 comes out as a verbatim copy of the Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution Share-Alike license, then all of Wikipedia is effectively dual-licensed under GFDL 1.2 and CC-BY-SA 2.5, and anyone re-using the content can pick whichever license they want.
I'm not sure about that.
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html - section ten, first paragraph
The Free Software Foundation may publish new, revised versions of the GNU Free Documentation License from time to time. Such new versions will be similar in spirit to the present version, but may differ in detail to address new problems or concerns.
I think you could make a case, based on the "similar in spirit" clause, that this hypothetical version 1.3 was *not* a revised version of the GFDL, but rather a new license which shared a name with the old one - it didn't comply with the terms set out in earlier versions to define what a later revision would consist of.
I wouldn't want to pay for your lawyers, mind, but it's not a frivolous argument.
-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
On 3/3/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
So how to escape?
Easy! Three steps:
1. Get everyone who has ever contributed to WP to revoke their GFDL licensing, and re-license the stuff as whatever; 2. Buy out the copyright in all derivative works (ie, all the forks); 3. Buy out all the mirrors.
Based on this principle: can one really ask users to re-(multi)-license their PAST contributions? That is, can I say, "All those contributions I said were under the GFDL? Well, now I want them to also be GFDL or CC-BY-SA." Legally, I'm suspicious, but I'm also not a lawyer.
If you own the copyright you can release it under whatever licence you choose. Someone changing to multi-licencing can make all their past edits available under a different licence without any problems - it simply takes effect from the date they multi-licence.
It is just a thought I had -- the only one I could come up with which seems really plausible, aside from the possibility of the FSF being convinced to make updates to the GFDL (which I suspect they would be very dubious about, especially if the edits were primarily to benefit Wikipedia).
While other ways forward are theoretically possible, in practice this is our best option. All the content is already licenced under "GFDL 1.2 or any later version." I can't recall where I saw it exactly, but I do remember some FSF people talking about making future versions of the GFDL more compatible with projects like WP. Our use of GFDL is good for everyone, including the FSF, so I wouldn't put it completely out of consideration that they'd make the next versions better for us!
-- Stephen Bain stephen.bain@gmail.com
On 3/2/06, Stephen Bain stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/3/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
So how to escape?
Easy! Three steps:
- Get everyone who has ever contributed to WP to revoke their GFDL
licensing, and re-license the stuff as whatever; 2. Buy out the copyright in all derivative works (ie, all the forks); 3. Buy out all the mirrors.
Or the good old one step version: rewrite everything from scratch.
I used to be a fan of the dual-licensing, but the more I think about it the more I figure that the only way to escape the GFDL is going to be to rewrite everything.
This is actually a bit easier than it sounds, since Wikipedia is mostly based in facts. It wouldn't be too hard to extract just the uncopyrightable facts, and then rewrite an encyclopedia based on that. Now for a few articles which were written by very few people this might not be enough, as the selection of facts might itself be copyrightable, but those are probably few and far between.
Anthony
On 3/2/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
There was also the big push, awhile ago, to get users to put templates on their user pages indicating that their present, future, and, I think, *past* contributions were multi-licensed as well -- I believe it had to do with making certain articles compatible with WikiCities' license.
Wikicities is under the GFDL (to be compatible with Wikipedia), so any relicensing had nothing to do with that.
If this principle works -- couldn't we change the terms of use? That is, instead of every edit being licenseable under the GFDL, couldn't we change it to say that "this contribution, and any other contribution I have previously made, is licenseable under the GFDL or any other similarly 'free' license"?
There is a proposal on the German Wikipedia about making unregistered users dual license their edits under the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike License and GFDL. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/Creative_Commons-Migration_Teil_1 (Machine translation into English at http://tinyurl.com/bkov5). It was discussed in German in this thread: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikide-l/2006-January/016116.html
Angela
Fastfission wrote:
And now... for something completely different.
<snip>
The idea of multi-licensing has been pursued on the project at different times, whereby contributions are indicates as being licenseable under the GFDL or another, similarly "free" license (i.e., CC-BY-SA or CC-SA). There was also the big push, awhile ago, to get users to put templates on their user pages indicating that their present, future, and, I think, *past* contributions were multi-licensed as well -- I believe it had to do with making certain articles compatible with WikiCities' license. The basic idea was to run a bot to find all of the "authors" the articles in question and see if they would agree to this. I don't know how this worked out, but it was an interesting idea.
It initially started with the Rambot articles, so that WikiTravel could use them.
Based on this principle: can one really ask users to re-(multi)-license their PAST contributions? That is, can I say, "All those contributions I said were under the GFDL? Well, now I want them to also be GFDL or CC-BY-SA." Legally, I'm suspicious, but I'm also not a lawyer.
Um, Stallman says CC is bad, because people assume that all Creative Commons licenses are the same without understanding the consequences - so people don't understand why cc-by-nd-nc isn't a Free license. "But it's Creative Commons!" they protest. "You use /that/ stuff which is Creative Commons, so why not mine?"
If this principle works -- couldn't we change the terms of use? That is, instead of every edit being licenseable under the GFDL, couldn't we change it to say that "this contribution, and any other contribution I have previously made, is licenseable under the GFDL or any other similarly 'free' license"? It wouldn't necessarily get *all* of the content out of the GFDL but, if we assume that many of the editors now were editors previously, it would potentially "free up" a very large amount of content. If an individual editor objected to this for some reason (I can't imagine why, but let's just say they did), then they'd be prohibited from editing, the same way we do when people suddenly claim that the intent to retain copyright on their edits.
Well, you'd need to define "similarly free" first...
Supposing that this was put into place, all that would change from an editor's point of view would be the edit page - instead of "Content must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable. You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL", it would have the name of the other license/complex licensing conditions.
Speaking of people objecting to our current licensing, check out [[Talk:Bruce Perens]]. Apparantly he objects to us having an article on him, because he has issues with the license we are using... oh, and apparantly we're neither a Free Software project *or* an Open Source project. Hrm.
On 3/3/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Speaking of people objecting to our current licensing, check out [[Talk:Bruce Perens]]. Apparantly he objects to us having an article on him, because he has issues with the license we are using... oh, and apparantly we're neither a Free Software project *or* an Open Source project. Hrm.
I assume you're implying that the paragraph signed "Bruce" (who I now find out is User:Bruce Perens) is supposed to be Bruce Perens? Is there any evidence that's actually the case? Because a comment like "because of the flaws in the license - it is unlawful to host the wikipedia on a computer running any contemporary operating system" seems to be pretty far out there.
Doing a quick Google search, I find http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=4921 and http://www.oetrends.com/news.php?action=view_record&idnum=457 ("Wikipedia is an example of a non software incarnation of Open Source."), which makes me even more skeptical that this person is indeed Bruce Perens.
Anthony (the real one)
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
On 3/3/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Speaking of people objecting to our current licensing, check out [[Talk:Bruce Perens]]. Apparantly he objects to us having an article on him, because he has issues with the license we are using... oh, and apparantly we're neither a Free Software project *or* an Open Source project. Hrm.
I assume you're implying that the paragraph signed "Bruce" (who I now find out is User:Bruce Perens) is supposed to be Bruce Perens? Is there any evidence that's actually the case?
"I learn in email that it is indeed Perens. — ciphergoth 19:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)"
If you want you can contact him at his debian.org address to confirm that he made these statements. Or you can ask me to, I'm not fussed either way.
Because a comment like "because of the flaws in the license - it is unlawful to host the wikipedia on a computer running any contemporary operating system" seems to be pretty far out there.
Doing a quick Google search, I find http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=4921 and http://www.oetrends.com/news.php?action=view_record&idnum=457 ("Wikipedia is an example of a non software incarnation of Open Source."), which makes me even more skeptical that this person is indeed Bruce Perens.
Well, you never know. Again, I can contact him to confirm and elaborate on this if you want...
The IP 64.81.245.138 made the edit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bruce_Perens&diff=prev&old...
The user [[User:Bruce Perens]] made the edit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bruce_Perens&diff=3981252...
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Copyright_FAQ&diff=p... and http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html .
I suppose this all might really be Perens. Perens has been involved in these topics. In 2001 he claimed that the "GFDL is a DFSG-compliant license", but his position may have changed since then.
I do think that a statement that "it is unlawful to host the wikipedia on a computer running any contemporary operating system" is fairly delusional, though.
Anthony
On 3/5/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
On 3/3/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Speaking of people objecting to our current licensing, check out [[Talk:Bruce Perens]]. Apparantly he objects to us having an article on him, because he has issues with the license we are using... oh, and apparantly we're neither a Free Software project *or* an Open Source project. Hrm.
I assume you're implying that the paragraph signed "Bruce" (who I now find out is User:Bruce Perens) is supposed to be Bruce Perens? Is there any evidence that's actually the case?
"I learn in email that it is indeed Perens. — ciphergoth 19:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)"
If you want you can contact him at his debian.org address to confirm that he made these statements. Or you can ask me to, I'm not fussed either way.
Because a comment like "because of the flaws in the license - it is unlawful to host the wikipedia on a computer running any contemporary operating system" seems to be pretty far out there.
Doing a quick Google search, I find http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=4921 and http://www.oetrends.com/news.php?action=view_record&idnum=457 ("Wikipedia is an example of a non software incarnation of Open Source."), which makes me even more skeptical that this person is indeed Bruce Perens.
Well, you never know. Again, I can contact him to confirm and elaborate on this if you want...
-- Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
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