On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 2:43 AM, stevertigo<stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:
carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com writes:
> *a département of France
> *a French river
> *a French city
> *the French name for Vienna>>
Shouldn't it be [[Vienne]]? With the lede starting out"
'''Vienne''' (English spelling: Vienna), is a city...
A bit off topic, but I'd love to throw down and start an enormous
fight over endonyms versus exonyms:
How is it claimed that we are bound to English spelling only, and yet
permit all the Nordic, Germanic, and French characters* - few of which
most *English* speakers know the pronunciation of. (*?)
If we want to really go international and say i18n permits non-English
spelling (characters), why then not make endonyms the standard? The
lingua franca is not just for native speakers and readers, but for
everyone who might potentially deals at all with English sources).
Me, I'm wondering what the etymology of Vienne is?
Will, is this genealogy webpage reliable at all?
http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/famille_bourgogne/famille_vienne.htm
I am trying to work out which "Vienne" the first French Admiral of the
Fleet (or something), Jean de Vienne, came from, or was given a title
to, or something. But I think it might just be a common French name
for that period.
And why would the French call Wien, Vienne? (The question of why the
English call it Vienna is another story).
And does "Vienne" actually mean anything in French? Google Translate
helpfully tells me that "Vienne" means "Vienna" (yes, we knew that
already).
[At this point, in hope rather than expectation, I turned to the
French wiktionary...]
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Vienne
HA!
"(Ville et rivière d’Autriche) De l’allemand Wien /viːn/.
(Ville française en Isère) En latin moderne Vienna, du bas-latin
Uindenna, du celtique Uindobona « ville brillante, belle ville »,
dérivé de uind « blanche », « brillante » et bona « ville ».
(Rivière ou département français du Poitou) En bas-latin Vingenna, du
celtique Uingenna « rivière blanche, brillante, belle rivière »,
dérivé de uind « blanche », « brillante » et onna « rivière » : la
rivière a donné son nom au département français qu’elle traverse."
Vienne, Isère: "In modern Latin Vienna, lower-latin Uindenna of Celtic
Uindobona "Shining City, a beautiful city," uind derived from
"white",
"brilliant" and bona "town"."
Vienne (river and department): "lower-latin Vingen of Celtic Uingenna
"river white, shiny, beautiful river" uind derived from "white",
"brilliant" and onna "River""
Fascinating! (though slightly worried about sources for all that)
Now, why did that French wiktionary page not come up near the top on
my Google search for "etymology vienne"? Ah, silly me. When I search
for "Étymologie vienne", it is the top hit. Should have thought to
search using the French term for etymology.
Meanwhile, back on the English Wikipedia, a bot has added loads of interwikis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vienne_(disambiguation)&diff=…
I wonder if all those are correct or not?
Carcharoth