LDan wrote:
At the time I was banned (approx. 1 min after my account was created), I had made no edits aside from creating my userpage and editing User:Liberal's talk page. I intended to use the account to make completely NPOV edits on articles related US politics to prove that usernames are irrelavent, but I was banned before I could do that.
The point I've been trying make all along was that user names /are not/ there to make points! What you did amounts to trolling and thus is something that warrents an immediate ban. However, since you have never done anything like this before and we all know that you are an upstanding young man, then I see no reason to ban *you* from editing under user:LittleDan so long as you promise not to pull a stunt like this again and not to edit under user:Non-liberala are stupid or similarly provocative user names.
Camembert said that this was a childish point to make, but I don't see why. Maybe this is because I am a child. Maybe Wikipedia isn't a place for children.
Childish doesn't mean that all children are childish all the time. Many adults act childish (some almost all the time). However you almost always act very responsibly and have intelligence and reason way beyond your years. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. If you'll try to not repeat this particular lapse of judgment again, then Wikipedia is most definitely a place for you.
Oh, and you are a teenager, not a child IIRC. ;-)
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
The point I've been trying make all along was that user names /are not/ there to make points! What you did amounts to trolling and thus is something that warrents an immediate ban. However, since you have never done anything like this before and we all know that you are an upstanding young man, then I see no reason to ban *you* from editing under user:LittleDan so long as you promise not to pull a stunt like this again and not to edit under user:Non-liberala are stupid or similarly provocative user names.
Why is it necessary to restrict usernames? This seems like a pointless measure that could only loose us contributors.
Childish doesn't mean that all children are childish all the time. Many adults act childish (some almost all the time). However you almost always act very responsibly and have intelligence and reason way beyond your years. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. If you'll try to not repeat this particular lapse of judgment again, then Wikipedia is most definitely a place for you.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
So, if I did it again, you'd ban me? Even if all of my edits were OK?
You still haven't addressed my concern that this sets a dangerous precedent of banning someone while a discussion of whether or not to ban them was still going on. This wasn't even for vandalism or trolling, just for having an objectionable username. LDan
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LittleDan wrote:
You still haven't addressed my concern that this sets a dangerous precedent of banning someone while a discussion of whether or not to ban them was still going on. This wasn't even for vandalism or trolling, just for having an objectionable username.
I'm going to have to side with mav on this one, Dan. You /were/ trolling -- trying to get a rise out of people. And you succeeded in that, beyond your wildest dreams. ^_^
-- Toby
Ah, I missed this one -- I'm *way* behind, as usual.
LittleDan, you're a respected and highly valued member of the community, please don't do anything provocative like that again! (I see that you already apologized later in the thread. Thanks!)
Daniel Ehrenberg wrote:
Why is it necessary to restrict usernames? This seems like a pointless measure that could only loose us contributors.
The username that you chose for your demonstration very nicely illustrates the point. A 'username' like "Non-liberals are stupid" is a direct attack on other people, and an attack on an ideological basis. I don't consider myself a liberal, nor a conservative, and yet I also - for some reason - have a hard time thinking of myself as stupid.
Now, I'm well-known for being calm and pleasant and slow to ire, but even so, when I see someone writing and saying, in essence, that I'm _stupid_, it's difficult to view their work as co-operative and helpful. Such a name tends to poison our dialogue, as every single thing that the username posts is accompanied with an insult.
So, if I did it again, you'd ban me? Even if all of my edits were OK?
Yeah, I would. I mean, if you pulled stunts like this over and over, after repeatedly being asked to stop, you'd eventually burn through the incredible good will that you've generated with everyone.
But perhaps you're asking whether it's o.k. to ban someone for having a name like that, without all the usual rigamarole.
I'd say yes, no doubt about it. That name was not even borderline, it directly expressed a hostile sentiment towards many other contributors.
The "JesusIsLord" example was different. I think people realized that the name was very likely not intended to be offensive or insulting, and that while problematic, it wasn't just a simple insult.
One thing we must always remember -- we're building an encyclopedia first, and an experiment in openness second.
--Jimbo
So if one person (without any discussion) declares a username to be trolling then they can ban that user immediately? I don't see that on WP:NOU...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Mayer" maveric149@yahoo.com To: wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: [WikiEN-l] User:Non-liberals are stupid
LDan wrote:
At the time I was banned (approx. 1 min after my account was created), I had made no edits aside from creating my userpage and editing User:Liberal's talk page. I intended to use the account to make completely NPOV edits on articles related US politics to prove that usernames are irrelavent, but I was banned before I could do that.
The point I've been trying make all along was that user names /are not/
there
to make points! What you did amounts to trolling and thus is something
that
warrents an immediate ban. However, since you have never done anything
like
this before and we all know that you are an upstanding young man, then I
see
no reason to ban *you* from editing under user:LittleDan so long as you promise not to pull a stunt like this again and not to edit under user:Non-liberala are stupid or similarly provocative user names.
Camembert said that this was a childish point to make, but I don't see why. Maybe this is because I am a child. Maybe Wikipedia isn't a place for children.
Childish doesn't mean that all children are childish all the time. Many
adults
act childish (some almost all the time). However you almost always act
very
responsibly and have intelligence and reason way beyond your years. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. If you'll try to not repeat
this
particular lapse of judgment again, then Wikipedia is most definitely a
place
for you.
Oh, and you are a teenager, not a child IIRC. ;-)
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Andrew wrote:
So if one person (without any discussion) declares a username to be trolling then they can ban that user immediately? I don't see that on WP:NOU...
It falls into the same kind of category as "simple vandalism". Sysops are advised to be cautious, to bring it to the mailing list if there's doubt, and to stand ready to back down. In borderline cases, even if it's SORT OF borderline, probably it's best to just relax a bit and ask the person to change.
But any username that is just an insult of others, well, there's not much reason to wait for a discussion, because I can tell you know that it just isn't going to fly with me.
We're trying to maintain an atmosphere of *love* for what we're doing, and *love* for each other. That's a melodramatic and mushy thing to say, I know, and with all of our arguing it isn't always easy to remember. But it is true.
And so we aren't going to put up with usernames that are all about insulting others. That's just not going to help us create an atmosphere that's serious, pleasant, and non-partisan.
--Jimbo