On 3 Jun 2007 at 01:26:28 +0100, "Tony Sidaway" tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
Let's just get this straight: does anybody claim that these pages are necessary to the encyclopedia?
That seems to be the line of argument that people like to use these days every time they're out to suppress something (userboxes, "attack site" links, Esperanza, BJAODN, etc.), and can't come up with a good substantive argument about why it needs to be eliminated regardless of what anybody else thinks about it. Framing the argument in terms favorable to your side is a major step towards winning it; those in favor of eliminating something would generally prefer it to be argued in terms of "Is there any purpose in having it?", while the other side would be better with "Is there any purpose in suppressing it?"
On 6/3/07, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
On 3 Jun 2007 at 01:26:28 +0100, "Tony Sidaway" tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
Let's just get this straight: does anybody claim that these pages are necessary to the encyclopedia?
That seems to be the line of argument that people like to use these days every time they're out to suppress something (userboxes, "attack site" links, Esperanza, BJAODN, etc.), and can't come up with a good substantive argument about why it needs to be eliminated regardless of what anybody else thinks about it.
Well I'm not about to engage in an argument with a proponent of moribund institutions, but I definitely don't want the encyclopedia to be filled with crap that would be fodder for those who would wish to disregard our site license. This is crap, it's boriing, stupid crap, it was specifically chosen because it was stupid crap, and moreover the very act of retaining it gives the false impression that our site license can be ignored by people who are stupid enough not to care about it.
On 6/2/07, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
On 3 Jun 2007 at 01:26:28 +0100, "Tony Sidaway" tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
Let's just get this straight: does anybody claim that these pages are necessary to the encyclopedia?
That seems to be the line of argument that people like to use these days every time they're out to suppress something (userboxes, "attack site" links, Esperanza, BJAODN, etc.), and can't come up with a good substantive argument about why it needs to be eliminated regardless of what anybody else thinks about it.
There are a number of reasons that have been presented about why this should be eliminated, though. Its legal status is questionable, it makes the project look like a playground instead of one building an encyclopedia, it contains libel and false information, and I'm going to add one: it makes no sense to edit these pages, so they don't belong in a wiki.
At some point Wikipedia has to draw a line - what is in and what is out. Unfortunately the method to do this is unclear, but in this particular case there's a simple compromise. The pages are available for download at http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/. If you think society is better off with them than without them, and you think the copyright issues are negligible, you are perfectly free to download the pages and set up your own memorial to them.
Anthony
On 6/3/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
On 6/2/07, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
On 3 Jun 2007 at 01:26:28 +0100, "Tony Sidaway" tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
Let's just get this straight: does anybody claim that these pages are necessary to the encyclopedia?
That seems to be the line of argument that people like to use these days every time they're out to suppress something (userboxes, "attack site" links, Esperanza, BJAODN, etc.), and can't come up with a good substantive argument about why it needs to be eliminated regardless of what anybody else thinks about it.
There are a number of reasons that have been presented about why this should be eliminated, though. Its legal status is questionable, it makes the project look like a playground instead of one building an encyclopedia, it contains libel and false information, and I'm going to add one: it makes no sense to edit these pages, so they don't belong in a wiki.
At some point Wikipedia has to draw a line - what is in and what is out. Unfortunately the method to do this is unclear, but in this particular case there's a simple compromise. The pages are available for download at http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/. If you think society is better off with them than without them, and you think the copyright issues are negligible, you are perfectly free to download the pages and set up your own memorial to them.
Anthony
Unwieldy and too large for most people. If you have just the BJAODN pages, then I'd be glad to take those. ~~~~
On 6/3/07, Gabe Johnson gjzilla@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/3/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
If you think society is better off with them than without them, and you think the copyright issues are negligible, you are perfectly free to download the pages and set up your
own
memorial to them.
Unwieldy and too large for most people. If you have just the BJAODN pages, then I'd be glad to take those. ~~~~
Give me a list of title pages, and I'll see what I can do.
On 6/3/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
On 6/3/07, Gabe Johnson gjzilla@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/3/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
If you think society is better off with them than without them, and you think the copyright issues are negligible, you are perfectly free to download the pages and set up
your own
memorial to them.
Unwieldy and too large for most people. If you have just the BJAODN pages, then I'd be glad to take those. ~~~~
Give me a list of title pages, and I'll see what I can do.
s/title pages/page titles/ of course.