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In the course of dealing with some OTRS tickets, I came across
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Here is my question... the info box it red. Is the a common style for articles to effect the color of the info box, and if so, what mental connection (socialism = communism) are we feeding our editors by placing a red flag, and coloring the infobox? Probable POV issue here?
What are the thoughts?
Best, Jon
2008/7/13 Jon scream@datascreamer.com:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism Here is my question... the info box it red. Is the a common style for articles to effect the color of the info box, and if so, what mental connection (socialism = communism) are we feeding our editors by placing a red flag, and coloring the infobox? Probable POV issue here? What are the thoughts?
Er, what? Red is for Socialism, too.
(It's still the colour for the Labour Party in the UK, as unconnected to socialism as that's become.)
- d.
2008/7/13 Jon scream@datascreamer.com:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Here is my question... the info box it red. Is the a common style for articles to effect the color of the info box, and if so, what mental connection (socialism = communism) are we feeding our editors by placing a red flag, and coloring the infobox? Probable POV issue here?
I don't see any problem with this at all, beyond the fact that it's a bit garish.
There isn't anything particularly contentious about this, and I can see why it got chosen - it's the generally accepted linkage, socialism and related leftish philosophies of all stripes, light and heavy, are almost invariably seen as "red".
Indeed, it's one of only two political positions to *have* a generally, internationally, accepted "colour scheme" - the other, of course, being the Greens. (There's a nice summary in our article on the colour red, incidentally)
It's a minor stylistic quirk to reflect a generally understood linkage, nothing more.
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Andrew Gray wrote:
2008/7/13 Jon scream@datascreamer.com:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Here is my question... the info box it red. Is the a common style for articles to effect the color of the info box, and if so, what mental connection (socialism = communism) are we feeding our editors by placing a red flag, and coloring the infobox? Probable POV issue here?
I don't see any problem with this at all, beyond the fact that it's a bit garish.
There isn't anything particularly contentious about this, and I can see why it got chosen - it's the generally accepted linkage, socialism and related leftish philosophies of all stripes, light and heavy, are almost invariably seen as "red".
Indeed, it's one of only two political positions to *have* a generally, internationally, accepted "colour scheme" - the other, of course, being the Greens. (There's a nice summary in our article on the colour red, incidentally)
It's a minor stylistic quirk to reflect a generally understood linkage, nothing more.
It may be worth considering to MOS the infoboxes to a standardized format. Perhaps there is a centralized discussion already in place? I've not found it.
Its a trend I don't know if I am comfortable with, that being one can't exactly RS an infobox color, its subjective at the time.
Jon
2008/7/13 Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com:
There isn't anything particularly contentious about this, and I can see why it got chosen - it's the generally accepted linkage, socialism and related leftish philosophies of all stripes, light and heavy, are almost invariably seen as "red".
Yes. The American convention, with Republican as red and Democrat as blue, is odd in the international context.
- d.
David Gerard schreef:
Yes. The American convention, with Republican as red and Democrat as blue, is odd in the international context.
The colour scheme in the U.S. wasn't fixed until 2000; Reagan's win in 1980 was described as a "sea of blue" (Reagan was a Republican).
See [[Red states and blue states#Origins_of_current_color_scheme]]. We have an article about everything :)
Eugene
2008/7/13 Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com:
2008/7/13 Jon scream@datascreamer.com:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Here is my question... the info box it red. Is the a common style for articles to effect the color of the info box, and if so, what mental connection (socialism = communism) are we feeding our editors by placing a red flag, and coloring the infobox? Probable POV issue here?
I don't see any problem with this at all, beyond the fact that it's a bit garish.
There isn't anything particularly contentious about this, and I can see why it got chosen - it's the generally accepted linkage, socialism and related leftish philosophies of all stripes, light and heavy, are almost invariably seen as "red".
Indeed, it's one of only two political positions to *have* a generally, internationally, accepted "colour scheme" - the other, of course, being the Greens. (There's a nice summary in our article on the colour red, incidentally)
It's a minor stylistic quirk to reflect a generally understood linkage, nothing more.
Yes. Socialists are sometimes called pinkos (a bit of a pejorative) - but it indicates a red spectrum for the left. That said, "pinko" is more a light comparative to Communist red. But red is the traditional colour of the left in general.
Andrew Gray wrote:
There isn't anything particularly contentious about this, and I can see why it got chosen - it's the generally accepted linkage, socialism and related leftish philosophies of all stripes, light and heavy, are almost invariably seen as "red".
Indeed. I don't think that most of us worry about this kind of rule-of-thumb distinction.
Indeed, it's one of only two political positions to *have* a generally, internationally, accepted "colour scheme" - the other, of course, being the Greens. (There's a nice summary in our article on the colour red, incidentally)
Have the Tories abandoned their true blue image? In relation to the Greens we often hear of blue-green and red-green arrangements.
Ec
Jon schreef:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Here is my question... the info box it red.
That is not an infobox; it's an article series box. A small difference, but (in my opinion) it does make a difference. Box templates are designed to give a number of articles an uniform look, and the type of box determines its scope, and how it should look.
The Socialism series box is placed on many articles about various aspects of socialism; since socialism is the subject of the entire series, it is not that strange to make the series box a socialist red colour.
If [[Socialism]] had an infobox, that box would likely be used on a number of political ideologies, and it should look the same on all of those articles. Infoboxes should rarely (never?) be styled to suit the individual articles. (See for example the discussion at [[Talk:Wales]] about the infobox on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wales&oldid=203877423.
Eugene
Definitely a problem, but possibly unsolvable. To me socialism is democratic while communism is totalitarian. That is the distinction, not the degree of government ownership. But to perhaps all communist movements, communism IS socialism, while anything less than communist control and direction is a phony bourgeois sham.
Fred
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In the course of dealing with some OTRS tickets, I came across
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Here is my question... the info box it red. Is the a common style for articles to effect the color of the info box, and if so, what mental connection (socialism = communism) are we feeding our editors by placing a red flag, and coloring the infobox? Probable POV issue here?
What are the thoughts?
Best, Jon
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2008/7/13 Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net:
Definitely a problem, but possibly unsolvable. To me socialism is democratic while communism is totalitarian. That is the distinction, not the degree of government ownership. But to perhaps all communist movements, communism IS socialism, while anything less than communist control and direction is a phony bourgeois sham.
Sure, they are different things, but they are both represented by the colour red.