"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
--Jimbo
"Had this discussion been on aired on wikinews, such an error would quickly have been corrected."
What, wait? Not applicable? Damn.... I love that argument..................
On 12/6/05, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
--Jimbo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
--- Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Then make sure you do for all the other news outlets you will be talking with from the time being. :)
-- mav
__________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com
Why stop at news outlets?
http://www.fbi.gov/privacy.htm http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page139.html Oh and I guess Bush is off the hook... http://www.cia.gov/cia/notices.html#liability
;-)
FF
On 12/6/05, Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
--- Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Then make sure you do for all the other news outlets you will be talking with from the time being. :)
-- mav
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 12/6/05, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Well, it's pretty obvious from the interview that she was out to get you. CNN's coverage evinces clear bias. We do need to work on your preinterview briefings, though....
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. One radio report in Chicagoland reported that Seigenthaler was a former Senator. At least one blog report demanded absolute accuracy -- while misspelling Seigenthaler's name consistently throughout. Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org). The conclusion I've reached is that the media is no more accurate than we are. I think it would be a really good idea to take the media coverage of this incident and identify all the errors in their coverage -- some of which reaches the level of libel itself (such as the one that says that Jimbo ignored Seigenthaler's entreaties for four months before bothering to act). Their house is no cleaner than ours.
Kelly
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Well, it's pretty obvious from the interview that she was out to get you. CNN's coverage evinces clear bias. We do need to work on your preinterview briefings, though....
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. One radio report in Chicagoland reported that Seigenthaler was a former Senator. At least one blog report demanded absolute accuracy -- while misspelling Seigenthaler's name consistently throughout. Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org). The conclusion I've reached is that the media is no more accurate than we are. I think it would be a really good idea to take the media coverage of this incident and identify all the errors in their coverage -- some of which reaches the level of libel itself (such as the one that says that Jimbo ignored Seigenthaler's entreaties for four months before bothering to act). Their house is no cleaner than ours.
Kelly
_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I don't think it's really their house we should be worried about. Granted they are no more infallible than we are but it's the message the audience/public is getting that we care about. They know CNN makes mistakes, but they consider it generally reliable. They know we make mistakes, the message we have to get across is that we can be a reliable source of information as well. The fact that there were non-critical errors in covering this story doesn't really change their perception.
I guess it's sort of a hearts and minds thing.....
And as a FYI, Wikipedia will be a subject on NPR's Talk of the Nation between 19:00 and 20:00 UTC (2:00 and 3:00 est). They mentioned policy changes and recent events in the teaser....
-----Original Message----- From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org]On Behalf Of Kelly Martin Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 12:27 PM To: English Wikipedia Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] About our disclaimer and what I wish...
On 12/6/05, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Well, it's pretty obvious from the interview that she was out to get you. CNN's coverage evinces clear bias. We do need to work on your preinterview briefings, though....
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. One radio report in Chicagoland reported that Seigenthaler was a former Senator. At least one blog report demanded absolute accuracy -- while misspelling Seigenthaler's name consistently throughout. Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org). The conclusion I've reached is that the media is no more accurate than we are. I think it would be a really good idea to take the media coverage of this incident and identify all the errors in their coverage -- some of which reaches the level of libel itself (such as the one that says that Jimbo ignored Seigenthaler's entreaties for four months before bothering to act). Their house is no cleaner than ours.
Kelly _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Kelly Martin wrote:
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. [...]
As they say, never start a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel (servers by the truckload?). The positive framing is to start from "everybody makes mistakes", and point out WP's generally good performance at error correcting. For instance, by aggregating small amounts of available volunteer time, articles tend to get more proofreading than news organizations can typically afford to pay for. But it doesn't happen on a deadline, and so WP is slower than news organizations at getting to the same level of quality. Another way to phrase - "wiki is not magic, it's just different".
Stan
Kelly Martin wrote:
On 12/6/05, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Well, it's pretty obvious from the interview that she was out to get you. CNN's coverage evinces clear bias. We do need to work on your preinterview briefings, though....
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. One radio report in Chicagoland reported that Seigenthaler was a former Senator. At least one blog report demanded absolute accuracy -- while misspelling Seigenthaler's name consistently throughout. Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org). The conclusion I've reached is that the media is no more accurate than we are. I think it would be a really good idea to take the media coverage of this incident and identify all the errors in their coverage -- some of which reaches the level of libel itself (such as the one that says that Jimbo ignored Seigenthaler's entreaties for four months before bothering to act). Their house is no cleaner than ours.
That would be a great article on the nature of media accuracy; it could be widely circulated. I don't know if they coould handle having all these bubbles burst.
Ec
Kelly Martin wrote:
Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org).
It's an easy mistake to make, though, since all .com links transparently redirect to .org ones. The name of the project is Wikipedia, not wikipedia.org. And I guess most people just aren't watching their location bar all that much, since it's the only place where it's really apparent (okay, it's on [[Wikipedia]] too). If we really care that much about not being called a .com, we should change that.
grm_wnr
The below is quite well stated, and sets a good example for how deal with this in a meta article.
Would it make sense to have '[[Siegenthaler incident]]?' article on en.wiki? As always, NPOV would requires that we avoid unnecessarily diplomatic language. Someone could write a K5 article...
Stevertigo
--- Kelly Martin kelly.lynn.martin@gmail.com wrote:
Well, it's pretty obvious from the interview that she was out to get you. CNN's coverage evinces clear bias. We do need to work on your preinterview briefings, though....
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. One radio report in Chicagoland reported that Seigenthaler was a former Senator.
At least
one blog report demanded absolute accuracy -- while misspelling Seigenthaler's name consistently throughout. Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org). The conclusion I've reached is that the media is no more accurate than we are. I think it would be a really good idea to take the media coverage of this incident and identify all the errors in their coverage -- some of which reaches the level of libel itself (such as the one that says that Jimbo ignored Seigenthaler's entreaties for four months before bothering to act). Their house is no cleaner than ours.
__________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com
On 12/6/05, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
The below is quite well stated, and sets a good example for how deal with this in a meta article.
Would it make sense to have '[[Siegenthaler incident]]?' article on en.wiki? As always, NPOV would requires that we avoid unnecessarily diplomatic language. Someone could write a K5 article...
You mean one like [[John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy]]?
-- Sam
On 12/6/05, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
Would it make sense to have '[[Siegenthaler incident]]?' article on en.wiki? As always, NPOV would requires that we avoid unnecessarily diplomatic language.
There is an article at [[John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy]]. It is up for deletion.
TD
On 12/6/05, Taco Deposit tacodeposit@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/6/05, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
Would it make sense to have '[[Siegenthaler incident]]?' article on en.wiki? As always, NPOV would requires that we avoid unnecessarily diplomatic language.
There is an article at [[John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy]]. It is up for deletion.
TD
Does that mean that someone actually opposes keeping it as a redirect to [[John Seigenthaler Sr.]]? Or is this just an obvious example of AfD being used for questions completely unrelated to deletion?
Anthony
Actually it is worse that they are no more accurate than we are.
Our errors can be fixed in moments. Theirs exist in perpetuity. If someone had written this information about Seigenthaler on a geocities page it would have taken him a week to get removed and he'd still have no real idea who wrote it. They wouldn't even give up the IP address without a court order (as they shouldn't).
(And while we are on the topic of mainstream media errors, in an article from last Thursday, December 1, in the feature article on the front page of the New York Times Business section, it said, and I quote, "The Samotlor oil field in Russia has a distinct shape and is easily discernable on a satellite image. It can be located quickly by searching the web or using a mapping program. Regardless, the *Soviet Union* continues to produce and distribute maps that obscure the locaitons of landmarks." My emphasis added. Just in case you get interviewed by the NYT, Jimbo.)
FF
On 12/6/05, Kelly Martin kelly.lynn.martin@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/6/05, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
"Now, you do have a general disclaimer on the site, it says that Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here, none of the authors, contributors, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libellous information." - Kyra Phillips, talking to me on CNN
I wish my response could have been:
"Yes, Kyra, and let me read you the disclaimer from _your_ website: NEITHER CNN, ITS AFFILIATES NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, THIRD PARTY CONTENT PROVIDERS OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT CNN INTERACTIVE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE; NOR DO THEY MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM USE OF CNN INTERACTIVE, OR AS TO THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY OR CONTENT OF ANY INFORMATION, SERVICE, OR MERCHANDISE PROVIDED THROUGH CNN INTERACTIVE."
But I didn't have that handy.
Well, it's pretty obvious from the interview that she was out to get you. CNN's coverage evinces clear bias. We do need to work on your preinterview briefings, though....
It's been interesting to note the errors, minor and major, in the news coverage of this incident. One radio report in Chicagoland reported that Seigenthaler was a former Senator. At least one blog report demanded absolute accuracy -- while misspelling Seigenthaler's name consistently throughout. Almost all the print and electronic media articles I've seen misreport Wikipedia's URL as www.wikipedia.com (instead of .org). The conclusion I've reached is that the media is no more accurate than we are. I think it would be a really good idea to take the media coverage of this incident and identify all the errors in their coverage -- some of which reaches the level of libel itself (such as the one that says that Jimbo ignored Seigenthaler's entreaties for four months before bothering to act). Their house is no cleaner than ours.
Kelly _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l