I noticed that there exists a userbox template {{User America fan}}- to indicate that the concerned user supports the U.S. However, there is no such userbox template indicate that the concerned user supports any of the other 180-odd countries that make up this Earth, eg. ther is no {{User Australia fan}} or {{User Japan fan}}. To indicate that a user supports any country other than the U.S, he/she has to create a userbox-there is no ready-made template. Why is this (apparent) favouritsm being shown toward the U.S. Aren't the other 188 countries worthy of having supporters? Also there is another 9/11,memoriam userbox template, however there is no Nazi Holocaust Memorial template. While we all realise that most Wikipedians (especially the powers-that-be) are Americans, this sort of bias is hurtful to us non-American Wikipedians. I would have taken this user-template matter up with someone on Wikipedia, but when I tried to enquire about a possible course of action on IRC, a user asked me (on the basis that I was questioning the {{User America fan}} template) whether I was an Islamofascist. Needless to say this made me a bit apprehensive, so I'm posing this question on the mailing list. Any comments/views would be appreciated. Thanks.
PS-No offence intended to American Wikipedians.
Prasad J wrote:
I noticed that there exists a userbox template {{User America fan}}- to indicate that the concerned user supports the U.S. However, there is no such userbox template indicate that the concerned user supports any of the other 180-odd countries that make up this Earth, eg. ther is no {{User Australia fan}} or {{User Japan fan}}. To indicate that a user supports any country other than the U.S, he/she has to create a userbox-there is no ready-made template. Why is this (apparent) favouritsm being shown toward the U.S. Aren't the other 188 countries worthy of having supporters? Also there is another 9/11,memoriam userbox template, however there is no Nazi Holocaust Memorial template. While we all realise that most Wikipedians (especially the powers-that-be) are Americans, this sort of bias is hurtful to us non-American Wikipedians. I would have taken this user-template matter up with someone on Wikipedia, but when I tried to enquire about a possible course of action on IRC, a user asked me (on the basis that I was questioning the {{User America fan}} template) whether I was an Islamofascist. Needless to say this made me a bit apprehensive, so I'm posing this question on the mailing list. Any comments/views would be appreciated. Thanks.
PS-No offence intended to American Wikipedians.
Quoth the cabal line, "{{USER AMERICA FAN}} DIVISIVE SPEEDY NOW HUR HUR HUR". (If you don't get it, it means that the [[cabal]] considers such templates wrong and wants them deleted; see [[WP:DRVU]].) Me? I couldn't care less about userboxes, except for the really blatantly divisive ones.
John
On 5/11/06, Prasad J prasad59@gmail.com wrote:
I noticed that there exists a userbox template {{User America fan}}-
Hi, just before we continue this conversation, are you aware that userboxes like this have been the subject of a lot of controversy and division in the last few months? That will help us work out how best to reply :)
Steve
G'day Prasad,
I noticed that there exists a userbox template {{User America fan}}- to indicate that the concerned user supports the U.S. However, there is no such userbox template indicate that the concerned user supports any of the other 180-odd countries that make up this Earth, eg. ther is no {{User Australia fan}} or {{User Japan fan}}. To indicate that a user supports any country other than the U.S, he/she has to create a userbox-there is no ready-made template. Why is this (apparent) favouritsm being shown toward the U.S. Aren't the other 188 countries worthy of having supporters? Also there is another 9/11,memoriam userbox template, however there is no Nazi Holocaust Memorial template. While we all realise that most Wikipedians (especially the powers-that-be) are Americans, this sort of bias is hurtful to us non-American Wikipedians. I would have taken this user-template matter up with someone on Wikipedia, but when I tried to enquire about a possible course of action on IRC, a user asked me (on the basis that I was questioning the {{User America fan}} template) whether I was an Islamofascist. Needless to say this made me a bit apprehensive, so I'm posing this question on the mailing list. Any comments/views would be appreciated. Thanks.
Userboxen are *not* endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation, the Wikipedia community in general, or (in some rather peculiar cases) the creators of the userboxen themselves. The contents of a userbox should never be taken as an attempt by Wikipedia to cause offence.
As for why there is a {{User America fan}} but no {{User Japan fan}} (say), Americans tend to be insecure, and therefore need to reassure themselves (and other Americans) that they really are as patriotic as government policy decrees. The userbox in question was probably created by an American who was disturbed that his userpage did not sufficiently affirm his dedication to Mother Columbia, and wished to correct this appalling state of affairs before the FBI came and took him away.
(I intend no offence towards American Wikipedians, by the way[0].)
PS-No offence intended to American Wikipedians.
Oh, good.
[0] Is this email the makings of an excellent Uncyclopedia article, or just bitter sarcasm more stupid than it is funny?
Prasad J prasad59@gmail.com wrote: I noticed that there exists a userbox template {{User America fan}}- to indicate that the concerned user supports the U.S. However,
It's POV, contributes nothing to the encyclopedic content, and it should be speedy deleted.
The views expressed here are those of a U.S. born, raised, and current citizen.~~~~Pro-Lick
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I checked out WP:DRVU and I found that the following userbox templates had been deleted:{{User Unamerican}}, {{User independent Iraq}}, {{User USA police state}}, {{User Communist}}. Now after checking some of the comments on the discussion about {{User Unamerican}},it seems if a user is {{User Americafan}}-i.e supports America he does not have a POV, however if he does NOT support America he has a POV. Now whether a point-of-view is good or bad isn't it (logically speaking) still a point-of-view? It's small things like this that (despite there being numerous fair American Wikipedians) make it seem as if Wikipedia is biased toward the U.S.
G'day Prasad,
I checked out WP:DRVU and I found that the following userbox templates had been deleted:{{User Unamerican}}, {{User independent Iraq}}, {{User USA police state}}, {{User Communist}}. Now after checking some of the comments on the discussion about {{User Unamerican}},it seems if a user is {{User Americafan}}-i.e supports America he does not have a POV, however if he does NOT support America he has a POV. Now whether a point-of-view is good or bad isn't it (logically speaking) still a point-of-view? It's small things like this that (despite there being numerous fair American Wikipedians) make it seem as if Wikipedia is biased toward the U.S.
Users are allowed a POV, they aren't allowed to express one in articles.
"Divisive or inflammatory" userboxen are being deleted every day; it's easier to make the case that "I hate X" is divise or inflammatory than it is to make the same case against "I love X". That's the reason for the perceived bias.
n 5/11/06, Prasad J prasad59@gmail.com wrote:
still a point-of-view? It's small things like this that (despite there being numerous fair American Wikipedians) make it seem as if Wikipedia is biased toward the U.S.
If I may, I do believe that Americans are more "patriotic" and more likely to make public displays of support for their ideology, than certain other cultures at least.
In any case, the sooner Wikipedia culture turns its back on this sort of userbox, the better.
On the other hand, I was looking for a userbox that might help locate people who like taking photos for Wikipedia. But failed.
Steve
(Sorry to cut all the quoted text), Might I just quickly make the point that the United States are in fact somewhat larger than many of the countries out there?
That being said, I can understand why there's an "American fan" and not one for smaller countries. However, it seems to me that this wouldn't be for Americans, but rather for non-Americans who support America (as it has been receiving a lot of negative press and the world hates it, and so on).
Anyhow, userboxes are stupid, but I don't think this makes /Wikipedia/ biased or POV. It could easily be assumed that there is {{User America fan}} and no {{User Japan fan}} because none had been made yet.
But please don't make it. We have enough to delete as is.
Mark Gallagher m.g.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au wrote: "Divisive or inflammatory" userboxen are being deleted every day; it's easier to make the case that "I hate X" is divise or inflammatory than it is to make the same case against "I love X". That's the reason for the perceived bias.
So, rather than delete, make more userboxes with "love" and "fan" in them. Woo hoo. See how long it takes "I love America Spying On Me" or "AmericaWiretapFan" or "LoveAmericanIntelligence" to get deleted. I'm assuming that "LoveAmericansOnTheirKnees" would be widely accepted. ;)~~~Pro-Lick
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Hi Mark, But then again different people find different things inflammatory. If I were to add a userbox saying "This user supports the publication of Prophet Muhammad" cartoons", mainly (perhaps only) Muslims are likely to find that inflammatory. Again if I added a userbox proclaiming that "This user supports Iran's nuclear programme", then Americans are likely to find it offensive. Therefore the issue of what constitutes inflammatory userboxes becomes subjective. The majority of Wikipedians are American,therefore anti-U.S userboxes are more likely to be termed inflammatory. And this issue is not confined only to userboxes-it happens in articles too-the issue of the article "US-Israeli threats to attack Iran" is one example.The issue of whether the U.S Navy intentionally shot down an Iranian passenger jet seems to have been dismissed (despite a U.S Navy invesigating officer's observations to the contrary) by the simple,yet effective arguement -America is too noble to stoop to such a level. It happens all across the Internet actually. I spent 20 minutes trying to explain to one chatroom user why the U.S Department of Homeland Security does not have the right to arrest me (a foreign citizen) for what I say about the war in Iraq!
Hi Katie, Might I remind you that Russia, Canada and China are all larger than the U.S in terms of land area? And America's population is nowhere near that of China or India. So your arguement about America being large does have certain loopholes. And as for people being against the U.S, though Guatanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and the war in Iraq do have a lot to do with it most of it comes from personal experiences. The following is a conversation that took place between a Muslim classmate of mine-a 17 year-old A-grade student who is the son of a succesful executive- (M) and a security guard (US) at O'Hare International Airport,Chicago.
US:What is the purpose of your visit to the U.S? M:I'm a tourist. US:Say "Sir". M:What? US:Call me "Sir".What's your name? M:Abbas, Sir. <few more questions> US:Do you agree to a strip-search? M:What? US:You gotta say yes. M:Why? US:You have to say yes. M:Then why ask me? US:Are you trying to resist?Do you have somthing to hide? M (gets apprehensive as the guard becomes aggressive):No Sir,I have no objection.
It's things like this that put people off with the U.S.
On 5/11/06, Prasad J prasad59@gmail.com wrote:
I noticed that there exists a userbox template {{User America fan}}- to indicate that the concerned user supports the U.S. However, there is no such userbox template indicate that the concerned user supports any of the other 180-odd countries that make up this Earth, eg. ther is no {{User Australia fan}} or {{User Japan fan}}. To indicate that a user supports any country other than the U.S, he/she has to create a userbox-there is no ready-made template. Why is this (apparent) favouritsm being shown toward the U.S. Aren't the other 188 countries worthy of having supporters?
You could make the userbox on your own. It's not favoritism, it's just that nobody's gotten around to it yet.