I just noticed that we have [[Category:Digital cameras]] and [[Category:SLR cameras]], but no [[Category:Digital SLR cameras]]. How incredibly frustrating that the options are:
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, leaving the two old ones (redundant) - Tag all DSLRs with a new category, replacing the two old ones, and putting the new category as a sub category of both SLR cameras and Digital cameras (doesn't seem clean) - Use CatScan (broken) http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?wikilang=e...
- ???
Steve
Hmmm, you could create a new category if there'd be enough entries, but since we already have the two existing ones: why not just simply put the ones which apply in both categories? (I'm assuming they're both subcategories of [[Category:Cameras]] and not of each other here).
Mgm
On 6/13/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
I just noticed that we have [[Category:Digital cameras]] and [[Category:SLR cameras]], but no [[Category:Digital SLR cameras]]. How incredibly frustrating that the options are:
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, leaving the two old ones (redundant)
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, replacing the two old ones, and
putting the new category as a sub category of both SLR cameras and Digital cameras (doesn't seem clean)
- Use CatScan (broken)
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?wikilang=e...
- ???
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 13 Jun 2006, at 11:36, MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
Hmmm, you could create a new category if there'd be enough entries, but since we already have the two existing ones: why not just simply put the ones which apply in both categories? (I'm assuming they're both subcategories of [[Category:Cameras]] and not of each other here).
Mgm
On 6/13/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
I just noticed that we have [[Category:Digital cameras]] and [[Category:SLR cameras]], but no [[Category:Digital SLR cameras]]. How incredibly frustrating that the options are:
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, leaving the two old ones
(redundant)
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, replacing the two old ones, and
putting the new category as a sub category of both SLR cameras and Digital cameras (doesn't seem clean)
This is clearly the correct option, whats not clean with it?
- Use CatScan (broken)
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php? wikilang=en&wikifam=.wikipedia.org&basecat=digital +cameras&basedeep=1&mode=cs&tagcat=SLR +cameras&tagdeep=1&go=Scan&userlang=en
Steve Bennett wrote:
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, replacing the two old ones, and
putting the new category as a sub category of both SLR cameras and Digital cameras (doesn't seem clean)
According to the current guidelines, this is the proper solution. I don't see what's so unclean about it, anyway -- a DSLR is _defined_ as an SLR that is _also_ a digital camera. It's no stranger than "Bridges in France" being a subset of both "Bridges" and "Things in France".
On 6/13/06, Ilmari Karonen nospam@vyznev.net wrote:
According to the current guidelines, this is the proper solution. I don't see what's so unclean about it, anyway -- a DSLR is _defined_ as an SLR that is _also_ a digital camera. It's no stranger than "Bridges in France" being a subset of both "Bridges" and "Things in France".
Yeah, actually you're right. I was just dreaming of the day when having atomic attributes on pages is the right thing to do (supposedly the way de.wp does it?)
Steve
Ilmari Karonen wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, replacing the two old ones, and
putting the new category as a sub category of both SLR cameras and Digital cameras (doesn't seem clean)
According to the current guidelines, this is the proper solution. I don't see what's so unclean about it, anyway -- a DSLR is _defined_ as an SLR that is _also_ a digital camera. It's no stranger than "Bridges in France" being a subset of both "Bridges" and "Things in France".
It does make it somewhat inflexible, since we have to guess what sorts of intersections people care about. To take your example, we have [[Category:Bridges in France]]. We also have categories like [[Category:Bridges completed in 1967]]. Now what if I want a list of bridges in France completed in 1967? We could make a new category, [[Category:Bridges in France completed in 1967]], but this quickly becomes intractable---in principle anyone could want any intersection of any combination of attributes, so we'd need an exponential number of such categories. Much cleaner is to tag things with "atomic" categories like "bridge" and "in France" and "completed in 1967", and then have a way to determine intersections.
-Mark
On 6/13/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
I just noticed that we have [[Category:Digital cameras]] and [[Category:SLR cameras]], but no [[Category:Digital SLR cameras]]. How incredibly frustrating that the options are:
I did a lot of the setting up of these categories. IMO, that the category system does not support searches on intersection or subcategory yet is not a good reason to create broken categories.
Cameras have multiple attributes, among which are brand, type and format. So there are, e.g.
[[Category:Canon cameras]] [[Category:SLR cameras]] [[Category:Digital cameras]]
There are other attributes, such as lens mount and series and the like.
The problem is: do we really want to create a category that is the intersection of all these attributes and assume that's the only way we want to look at them? Or do we really want to create a category for EACH intersection?
E.g. someone might want to look at [[Category:Canon Digital SLRs]]. But they might also want to scan [[Category:Canon EOS cameras]] or [[Category:Canon SLRs]] or [[Category:Digital SLRs]]. Or any other combination of attributes that we hadn't thought of.
Better, I think, to fix MediaWiki to support category intersection and sub-inclusion in software. (perhaps this is a problem I should try and address in code?)
-Matt
Steve Bennett wrote:
I just noticed that we have [[Category:Digital cameras]] and [[Category:SLR cameras]], but no [[Category:Digital SLR cameras]]. How incredibly frustrating that the options are:
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, leaving the two old ones (redundant)
- Tag all DSLRs with a new category, replacing the two old ones, and
putting the new category as a sub category of both SLR cameras and Digital cameras (doesn't seem clean)
- Use CatScan (broken)
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?wikilang=e...
- ???
Steve
While we're on this topic, Bug 6281 http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6281 is an attempt at solving a related issue -- intersecting templates -- at Wiktionaries that use templates to structure entries.