I've created website to complement these mailing lists a venue for discussion. It's at wikien.net http://www.wikien.net/. Please let me know if you have any feedback or questions.
--- Jake Wartenberg
Jake Wartenberg wrote:
I've created website to complement these mailing lists a venue for discussion. It's at wikien.net http://www.wikien.net/. Please let me know if you have any feedback or questions.
Could you describe briefly what the editorial policy of this forum will be?
Charles
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
There have been a few of these. IMHO, the best website to discuss similar issues is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Village_Pump
Steve
There is something to be said for off wiki discussion. Why do you think these mailing lists get so much traffic? People can start discussions in a less formal setting before they take them to the pump. It should also be a place where members of the community can discuss things that are not Wikipedia related.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Could you describe briefly what the editorial policy of this forum will be?
Charles
I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here.
Jake
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg jake@jakewartenberg.com wrote:
I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here.
If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means) and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
We already have a list that is moderated.
Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean "I, personally, am not getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up another one".
I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped down by a few people. When that happens I generally think "yeah, they have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong".
Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right?
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Bod Notbod bodnotbod@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg jake@jakewartenberg.com wrote:
I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here.
If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means) and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
We already have a list that is moderated.
Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean "I, personally, am not getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up another one".
I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped down by a few people. When that happens I generally think "yeah, they have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong".
Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right?
Er, are you confusing Jake with someone else?
Carcharoth
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Bod Notbod bodnotbod@gmail.com wrote:
If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means) and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
We already have a list that is moderated.
Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean "I, personally, am not getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up another one".
I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped down by a few people. When that happens I generally think "yeah, they have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong".
Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right?
I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to Jake for your comments.
Nathan
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to Jake for your comments.
I'll happily apologise. But what was wrong in my assessment that starting a new community is the solution to any perceived problems either here or on wiki or other places where we can discuss things?
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Bod Notbod bodnotbod@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to Jake for your comments.
I'll happily apologise. But what was wrong in my assessment that starting a new community is the solution to any perceived problems either here or on wiki or other places where we can discuss things?
The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing.
Nathan
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing.
Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise.
Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on.
I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that "Foundation" type announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on Meta? And then people could leave comments there.
I do feel that we should follow the Wiki-way.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Bod Notbod bodnotbod@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing.
Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise.
Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on.
I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that "Foundation" type announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on Meta? And then people could leave comments there.
There is already a foundation mailing list. That, and others, are listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists
Carcharoth
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Carcharoth carcharothwp@googlemail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Bod Notbod bodnotbod@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked "Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]?" He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing.
Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise.
Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on.
I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that "Foundation" type announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on Meta? And then people could leave comments there.
There is already a foundation mailing list. That, and others, are listed here:
There is also a 5-year-old poll here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Mailing_lists#Poll:_a_better_pla...
Carcharoth
Bod Notbod wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg wrote
I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here.
If there's a problem with "outing" (I don't even know what that means) and "trolling" they should be dealt with within the community.
"Outing" is the public release of private information about an individual without his consent, particularly the public release of the real identity of someone who has chosen to be known only by a pseudonym. I would consider it a far more serious offence than trolling which is merely fishing for arguments.
Ec
Jake Wartenberg wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
There have been a few of these. IMHO, the best website to discuss similar issues is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Village_Pump
Steve
There is something to be said for off wiki discussion. Why do you think these mailing lists get so much traffic? People can start discussions in a less formal setting before they take them to the pump. It should also be a place where members of the community can discuss things that are not Wikipedia related.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Could you describe briefly what the editorial policy of this forum will be?
Charles
I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here.
Sort of. It is quite important to realise, though, that the "community" has no definite boundaries. An unofficial forum is typically seen as a place where Wikipedians and their critics meet on something like equal terms. You are obviously aware of some of the issues that arise, or have arisen in the past, with criticism that goes way past anything that could be reckoned constructive.
Charles
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Jake Wartenberg jake@jakewartenberg.com wrote:
I've created website to complement these mailing lists a venue for discussion. It's at wikien.net http://www.wikien.net/. Please let me know if you have any feedback or questions.
There have been a few of these. IMHO, the best website to discuss similar issues is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Village_Pump
Steve