In a message dated 6/1/2004 9:34:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, saintonge(a)telus.net writes: The side which provides reference and sources in an argument should be given preference. Opposition to those sources is valid, but that too needs some basis in reality. It is not enough to oppose something because it would cause embarassment to one's favoured side. Agree. 172 also happened to provide sources and this should certainly be taken into consideration. VV seems to be a POV warrior on this one. Danny