I am slightly concerned about the RfA for Acetic Acid. This is a user whose only attempt to create an article is [[vitaminwater]] which is really bad. He does however have overwhelming support (even from a couple of people I know) and clearly has a huge fanclub, and he hasnt done anything blatently wrong (apart from a perhaps unnecessary RfC).
I was wondering about suggesting a mentoring program in how to write an article perhaps, which would be something I would be interested in creating anyway.
I am sure he wont do any harm as an admin, but it all seems a bit odd.
Justinc
On 10/27/05, Justin Cormack justin@specialbusservice.com wrote:
I am slightly concerned about the RfA for Acetic Acid. This is a user whose only attempt to create an article is [[vitaminwater]] which is really bad. He does however have overwhelming support (even from a couple of people I know) and clearly has a huge fanclub, and he hasnt done anything blatently wrong (apart from a perhaps unnecessary RfC).
I was wondering about suggesting a mentoring program in how to write an article perhaps, which would be something I would be interested in creating anyway.
I am sure he wont do any harm as an admin, but it all seems a bit odd.
Justinc
What's the problem? My abilty to write articles is hardly top notch. Good editors and good admins are not the same thing. -- geni
On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 15:25 +0100, geni wrote:
What's the problem? My abilty to write articles is hardly top notch. Good editors and good admins are not the same thing. -- geni
Your range of activities is much wider.
You have edits that cleanup and wikify articles, even if not much.
But you would be welcome to sign up for how to write an article too...
Justinc
Sounds like an irc star. That would explain a fan club. I can't stand irc, but I have no objection to folks who can constructively banter becoming administrators. They are skilled communicators. It is a lot harder for a sensible hard-headed person to become liked than for someone who is well liked to become a capable administrator. It seems reasonable to me. Creating good new articles is not one of the duties of an administrator anyway.
Fred
On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Justin Cormack wrote:
I am slightly concerned about the RfA for Acetic Acid. This is a user whose only attempt to create an article is [[vitaminwater]] which is really bad. He does however have overwhelming support (even from a couple of people I know) and clearly has a huge fanclub, and he hasnt done anything blatently wrong (apart from a perhaps unnecessary RfC).
I was wondering about suggesting a mentoring program in how to write an article perhaps, which would be something I would be interested in creating anyway.
I am sure he wont do any harm as an admin, but it all seems a bit odd.
Justinc
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On 10/27/05, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
Sounds like an irc star. That would explain a fan club. I can't stand irc, but I have no objection to folks who can constructively banter becoming administrators.
The name is vaguely familiar to me from IRC but not so much that I'd qualify him as a "star".
Kelly
On 27/10/05, Kelly Martin kelly.lynn.martin@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/27/05, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
Sounds like an irc star. That would explain a fan club. I can't stand irc, but I have no objection to folks who can constructively banter becoming administrators.
The name is vaguely familiar to me from IRC but not so much that I'd qualify him as a "star".
I don't use IRC but the name is vaguely familiar, so presumably he does community interaction elsewhere as well.
-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
On 10/27/05, Justin Cormack justin@specialbusservice.com wrote:
I am slightly concerned about the RfA for Acetic Acid. This is a user whose only attempt to create an article is [[vitaminwater]] which is really bad. He does however have overwhelming support (even from a couple of people I know) and clearly has a huge fanclub, and he hasnt done anything blatently wrong (apart from a perhaps unnecessary RfC).
I was wondering about suggesting a mentoring program in how to write an article perhaps, which would be something I would be interested in creating anyway.
I am sure he wont do any harm as an admin, but it all seems a bit odd.
Justinc
A substantial fraction of our admins are largely worthless at writing articles. In fact, there's a good argument for the position that people who can write articles should not be admins: we need them writing articles, not running around breaking up fights.
Kelly
On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 09:34 -0500, Kelly Martin wrote:
On 10/27/05, Justin Cormack justin@specialbusservice.com wrote:
I am slightly concerned about the RfA for Acetic Acid. This is a user whose only attempt to create an article is [[vitaminwater]] which is really bad. He does however have overwhelming support (even from a couple of people I know) and clearly has a huge fanclub, and he hasnt done anything blatently wrong (apart from a perhaps unnecessary RfC).
I was wondering about suggesting a mentoring program in how to write an article perhaps, which would be something I would be interested in creating anyway.
I am sure he wont do any harm as an admin, but it all seems a bit odd.
Justinc
A substantial fraction of our admins are largely worthless at writing articles. In fact, there's a good argument for the position that people who can write articles should not be admins: we need them writing articles, not running around breaking up fights.
Thats a very reasonable argument. But someone on new articles watch really ought to know how to wikify an article I would have thought.
The mentoring process idea wasnt necessarily to encourage people to write lots of articles, but at least if you have done it once you might learn a bit about how to do research, how to recognise a good article, how to make an article better and so on.
Justinc
On 10/27/05, Justin Cormack justin@specialbusservice.com wrote:
Thats a very reasonable argument. But someone on new articles watch really ought to know how to wikify an article I would have thought.
there are other things an admin can do (clearing the backlog at WP:CP which is what I should be doing rather than posting this)
-- geni
Kelly Martin wrote:
A substantial fraction of our admins are largely worthless at writing articles. In fact, there's a good argument for the position that people who can write articles should not be admins: we need them writing articles, not running around breaking up fights.
At the moment, even granting that viewpoint, adminship is still pretty useful just for editing. I can't count how many times it would have been a real pain in the ass if I hadn't been able to do things like delete a redirect to make way for a move, not to mention needing admin rights to edit things like [[Wikipedia:In_the_news]] in the first place.
-Mark
On 27/10/05, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
At the moment, even granting that viewpoint, adminship is still pretty useful just for editing. I can't count how many times it would have been a real pain in the ass if I hadn't been able to do things like delete a redirect to make way for a move, not to mention needing admin rights to edit things like [[Wikipedia:In_the_news]] in the first place.
Indeed. I've been tempted to apply for adminship a few times simply so I can copyedit the front page without having to prod someone about it...
-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
On 10/27/05, Kelly Martin kelly.lynn.martin@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/27/05, Justin Cormack justin@specialbusservice.com wrote:
I am slightly concerned about the RfA for Acetic Acid. This is a user whose only attempt to create an article is [[vitaminwater]] which is really bad. He does however have overwhelming support (even from a couple of people I know) and clearly has a huge fanclub, and he hasnt done anything blatently wrong (apart from a perhaps unnecessary RfC).
I was wondering about suggesting a mentoring program in how to write an article perhaps, which would be something I would be interested in creating anyway.
I am sure he wont do any harm as an admin, but it all seems a bit odd.
Justinc
A substantial fraction of our admins are largely worthless at writing articles. In fact, there's a good argument for the position that people who can write articles should not be admins: we need them writing articles, not running around breaking up fights.
Kelly
The old phrase "it takes all kinds" comes to mind. Just as some people aren't good at writing, others aren't good at interaction. But we really need both these, and many other qualities in administrators and editors alike.
A substantial fraction of our admins are largely worthless at writing
articles. In fact, there's a good argument for the position that people who can write articles should not be admins: we need them writing articles, not running around breaking up fights.
Kelly
I think that admin powers are primarily editing tools which, secondarily, can be used for community governance. Someone does not have to be an admin to make peace and sort out fights - in fact, the only admin tools that can be used to break up fights are to lock a page (which does not fix a fight, just moves it to the talk page) and to threaten blocks for misbehaviour, which is actually something that the blocking policy opposes. People can be effective mediators and peacemakers without admin tools.
On the other hand, if you do a lot of editing you will find yourself needing to delete pages (when you create a page or a category with a typo in the name, for example) or edit protected pages (like DYK and the Main Page), or have a look at a deleted page that you want to re-create (especially if the page was speedied).
That said, of course, I agree with Geni that there is lots for an admin to do even if s/he does not create pages or add much in terms of content. And again, and RFA is really a matter of posing the question to the community - do we trust this person not to abuse admin tools. In the case of Acetic Acid, while I have not voted, I have seen a lot of contributions by this editor, I have seen them around a lot, and I think I have enough information to have an opinion as to whether they would or would not "behave themselves" - without having ever used irc.
Ian (Guettarda)
On 27 Oct 2005, at 18:16, Puddl Duk wrote:
A substantial fraction of our admins are largely worthless at writing articles. In fact, there's a good argument for the position that people who can write articles should not be admins: we need them writing articles, not running around breaking up fights.
Kelly
The old phrase "it takes all kinds" comes to mind. Just as some people aren't good at writing, others aren't good at interaction. But we really need both these, and many other qualities in administrators and editors alike.
Well to add some seriousness do the RfA (someone else has moved the really blatent joke votes off the page) I am seeing what happens if I try to get him to improve the article. Possibly cruel and unusual punishment, but I suspect that he might be more pleased if I change my oppose vote than with the votes of the legions of fans.
Justinc
Justin Cormack wrote:
Well to add some seriousness do the RfA (someone else has moved the really blatent joke votes off the page) I am seeing what happens if I try to get him to improve the article. Possibly cruel and unusual punishment, but I suspect that he might be more pleased if I change my oppose vote than with the votes of the legions of fans.
Justinc
I'd strongly urge against it since doing so would be pointless not to mention disruptive.
-Jtkiefer
On 28 Oct 2005, at 01:15, Jtkiefer wrote:
Justin Cormack wrote:
Well to add some seriousness do the RfA (someone else has moved the really blatent joke votes off the page) I am seeing what happens if I try to get him to improve the article. Possibly cruel and unusual punishment, but I suspect that he might be more pleased if I change my oppose vote than with the votes of the legions of fans.
Justinc
I'd strongly urge against it since doing so would be pointless not to mention disruptive.
Well he responded well so far, and now the RfA has got sensible I shall move the rest elsewhere.
Justinc