Could somebody who is not British (and therefore the target of this user's ire) please review this user page for me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fenian_Swine
I think it violates a few policies and sundry guidelines (including, arguably, user naming) but being British I can't really call myself unbiased here, and even if I were I can't go along and say anything without merely reinforcing his prejudices. Guy (JzG)
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Could somebody who is not British (and therefore the target of this user's ire) please review this user page for me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fenian_Swine
I think it violates a few policies and sundry guidelines (including, arguably, user naming) but being British I can't really call myself unbiased here, and even if I were I can't go along and say anything without merely reinforcing his prejudices. Guy (JzG)
This user has come up before. Probably best left alone.
-- geni
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Could somebody who is not British
I'm not currently in Britain. Is that close enough?
please review this user page for me:
I'm was going to say I'm amazed he wasn't blocked for having an offensive username, but he was blocked for it. It's even more amazing he was unblocked for being "not offensive enough".
Considering his name and attitude, I see nothing in the previous discussions at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Fenian_Swine to justify the unblock.
Angela.
I agree with Angela.
Angela wrote:
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Could somebody who is not British
I'm not currently in Britain. Is that close enough?
please review this user page for me:
I'm was going to say I'm amazed he wasn't blocked for having an offensive username, but he was blocked for it. It's even more amazing he was unblocked for being "not offensive enough".
Considering his name and attitude, I see nothing in the previous discussions at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Fenian_Swine to justify the unblock.
Angela. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 3/20/06, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
I agree with Angela.
It should be noted that Mr Swine is not Fenian Swine. There was no valid reason for the block in the first place thus there was no reason not to pull it. The whole situation was handled badly thus it is hardly supriseing that the user did not react in a totaly calm manner. The whole thing happened months ago and since then the users contibutions in the article space appear to have been acceptable. There was no reason to take action before there was no reason to take action now.
-- geni
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:43:02 +1100, you wrote:
Considering his name and attitude, I see nothing in the previous discussions at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Fenian_Swine to justify the unblock.
I just left a very polite notice suggesting he consider a username change, since some find his username offensive, and got this response:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJzG&diff=44728752&...
Which was, I guess predictable. Ah well. Guy (JzG)
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:43:02 +1100, you wrote:
Considering his name and attitude, I see nothing in the previous discussions at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Fenian_Swine to justify the unblock.
I just left a very polite notice suggesting he consider a username change, since some find his username offensive, and got this response:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJzG&diff=44728752&...
Which was, I guess predictable. Ah well. Guy (JzG)
After last time it is to be expected. People have a tendency to generalise from single events. Thus he views admins with suspicion.
-- geni
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:44:18 +0000, you wrote:
After last time it is to be expected. People have a tendency to generalise from single events. Thus he views admins with suspicion.
Maybe, but it must be said that it is an offensive username, and I was *very* polite. Guy (JzG)
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:44:18 +0000, you wrote:
After last time it is to be expected. People have a tendency to generalise from single events. Thus he views admins with suspicion.
Maybe, but it must be said that it is an offensive username, and I was *very* polite. Guy (JzG)
Unfortunety last time people were not.
-- geni
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Guy Chapman aka JzG stated for the record:
Maybe, but it must be said that it is an offensive username, and I was *very* polite. Guy (JzG)
You were indeed, and Fenny-boy is in flagrant violation of [[WP:DICK]] - -- which, alas, does not merit blocking.
- -- Seán Barrett | Portions of this message were sean@epoptic.org | composed using a computer.
To me this is a no brainer - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate_usernames
- Names that refer to symbols of hatred, including historical figures who are widely associated with such
Seems clearly to qualify - it is surprising that it took this long to notice.
Jim
-- Jim (trodel@gmail.com) "Our love may not always be reciprocated, or even appreciated, but love is never wasted" - Neal A Maxwell
On 3/20/06, Jim trodel@gmail.com wrote:
To me this is a no brainer - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate_usernames
- Names that refer to symbols of hatred, including historical figures
who are widely associated with such
Seems clearly to qualify - it is surprising that it took this long to notice.
Jim
What symbol does it refer to? You might do better on the national slurs bit but blocking:
Frog Frog One Frog lee Frog man Frog man45 Frog man46 Frog on a log Frog one Frog park Frog prince Frog queen Frog queen1995 Frog-On-The-Pond Frog00 Frog007 Frog08un56 Frog243 Frog29 Frog33 Frog442 RoastBeef
Would probably be regarded as excessive.
-- geni
On 21 Mar 2006, at 00:01, geni wrote:
On 3/20/06, Jim trodel@gmail.com wrote:
To me this is a no brainer - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate_usernames
- Names that refer to symbols of hatred, including historical
figures who are widely associated with such
Seems clearly to qualify - it is surprising that it took this long to notice.
Jim
What symbol does it refer to? You might do better on the national slurs bit but blocking:
Frog Frog One Frog lee Frog man Frog man45 Frog man46 Frog on a log Frog one Frog park Frog prince Frog queen Frog queen1995 Frog-On-The-Pond Frog00 Frog007 Frog08un56 Frog243 Frog29 Frog33 Frog442 RoastBeef
I would say it was more like Frog Merde, say. Which isnt on your list, so presume doesnt exist. Or Scheis Kraut. It clearly indicates non NPOV. If the edits are good that great, but if they cant be done under another name thats not so encouraging.
Justinc
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Could somebody who is not British (and therefore the target of this user's ire) please review this user page for me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fenian_Swine
I think it violates a few policies and sundry guidelines (including, arguably, user naming) but being British I can't really call myself unbiased here, and even if I were I can't go along and say anything without merely reinforcing his prejudices.
I don't actually find it particularly offensive. This seems to be the strongest it gets: "I hate the term British Isles. English people should get over themselves. They no longer have an empire to speak of and hopefully Scotland and Wales will leave the empire."
Seems like he's just stating his political beliefs, which are not particularly extreme, and don't call for killing anyone. He even has some nice words "Even if you're 100% sure that someone is a worthless, no-good, low-down scum-sucking Internet troll, vandal, or worse, conduct yourself as if they're not. By being calm, interested, and respectful, your dignity is uplifted, and you further our project.This an official policy of Wikipedia in relation to all but especially me."
What exactly do you object to?
Steve
On 3/20/06, Steve Bennett stevage@gmail.com wrote:
What exactly do you object to?
Steve
Calling for an armed upriseing in whales is pretty anoying. However I can live with that.
-- geni
G'day geni,
On 3/20/06, Steve Bennett stevage@gmail.com wrote:
What exactly do you object to?
Calling for an armed upriseing in whales is pretty anoying. However I can live with that.
I don't think Jonah really needs any encouragement to try to escape ...
(I know, I'm sorry. I tried to resist ...)
-- Mark Gallagher "What? I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!" - Danger Mouse
Our article on Fenian says: "Fenian is a term used since the 1860s for an Irish nationalist who espouses or is perceived to espouse violence against British rule, usually by people opposed to their aims."
Apparently it's a politically incorrect word used to insult someone with a particular belief. Combined with the word swine, I would very much think this to be an offensive username (and I'm Dutch not British). Please forgive me if it has been addrsssed before, but has anyone ever asked him to change his username?
Mgm
On 3/20/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/20/06, Steve Bennett stevage@gmail.com wrote:
What exactly do you object to?
Steve
Calling for an armed upriseing in whales is pretty anoying. However I can live with that.
-- geni _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:20:17 +0100, you wrote:
Our article on Fenian says: "Fenian is a term used since the 1860s for an Irish nationalist who espouses or is perceived to espouse violence against British rule, usually by people opposed to their aims."
Yup. That sets the tone, the balance is uncomfortable, not grossly excessive. The userboxes are also combative. I have no problem with identifying what your strong opinions are up front, but developing your arguments is not really what WP is for. But like I say, I am not neutral with respect to this (although I am not a fan of British rule in NI either).
I only asked, though, because others have come to my Talk page expressing concern. It would be nice if someone could ask him to tone it down a bit, since it seems calculated to offend some. I am not offended, just not comfortable with it. Guy (JzG)
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Yup. That sets the tone, the balance is uncomfortable, not grossly excessive. The userboxes are also combative. I have no problem with identifying what your strong opinions are up front, but developing your arguments is not really what WP is for. But like I say, I am not neutral with respect to this (although I am not a fan of British rule in NI either).
After being reminded of SPUI's userpage, I'm hard to find anything offensive at all, to be honest. I also only see one userbox, which just states his nationality...? And all he actually objects to is the term "british isles" and then says he wants his counties back...well...there's much worse out there.
Steve
--- MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
Our article on Fenian says: "Fenian is a term used since the 1860s for an Irish nationalist who espouses or is perceived to espouse violence against British rule, usually by people opposed to their aims."
Apparently it's a politically incorrect word used to insult someone with a particular belief. Combined with the word swine, I would very much think this to be an offensive username (and I'm Dutch not British). Please forgive me if it has been addrsssed before, but has anyone ever asked him to change his username?
Yes, last year, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fenian_Swine/Archive_1
I'm British, but I don't find his user name (which would appear to be sarcastic) nor his user page especially offensive.
-- Matt
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Matt_Crypto Blog: http://cipher-text.blogspot.com
___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry
On 3/20/06, Matt R matt_crypto@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I'm British, but I don't find his user name (which would appear to be sarcastic) nor his user page especially offensive.
I have to say, I agree. I'm a little bit more concerned that he has a fair use image on his userpage.
-- Sam
In message cbffa3750603200844y6b5e8268l4e6c565c4e418603@mail.gmail.com, Sam Korn smoddy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org writes
On 3/20/06, Matt R matt_crypto-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org wrote:
I'm British, but I don't find his user name (which would appear to be sarcastic) nor his user page especially offensive.
I have to say, I agree. I'm a little bit more concerned that he has a fair use image on his userpage.
I agree too, I raised my eyebrows when I first saw "Fenian Swine" appear last year, but mainly because I would consider it a highly derogatory term that some British people might use about the Irish, not the other way round.
On 3/20/06, Arwel Parry arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk wrote:
I agree too, I raised my eyebrows when I first saw "Fenian Swine" appear last year, but mainly because I would consider it a highly derogatory term that some British people might use about the Irish, not the other way round.
That doesn't really matter, does it? We wouldn't accept any user calling themselves a name with the famous "n bomb" (rhymes with trigger...), regardless of whether they were a black American.
Steve
On 21/03/06, Steve Bennett stevage@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/20/06, Arwel Parry arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk wrote:
I agree too, I raised my eyebrows when I first saw "Fenian Swine" appear last year, but mainly because I would consider it a highly derogatory term that some British people might use about the Irish, not the other way round.
That doesn't really matter, does it? We wouldn't accept any user calling themselves a name with the famous "n bomb" (rhymes with trigger...), regardless of whether they were a black American.
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I really do not think Fenian is remotely on a par with that n-word. Unless one is from Northern Ireland. Even so, I suspect despite crying foul at those who label Republicans with such a term, many Republicans are probably proud to be called such.
Fenian has been used repeated as a self-describing term at various times in history, right up to the present day, and with some pride too.
"Fenian Swine" is really more an ironic username than anything else in so far as I can see.
Perhaps the only people really offended are those from the country whose citizens use that term in a derogatory fashion, or those ignorant of the term and just vaguely aware of some links with a derogation?
Just some thoughts as an Irishman.
Zoney -- ~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
On 3/21/06, Steve Bennett stevage@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/20/06, Arwel Parry arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk wrote:
I agree too, I raised my eyebrows when I first saw "Fenian Swine" appear last year, but mainly because I would consider it a highly derogatory term that some British people might use about the Irish, not the other way round.
That doesn't really matter, does it? We wouldn't accept any user calling themselves a name with the famous "n bomb" (rhymes with trigger...), regardless of whether they were a black American.
Actually it does matter who uses a word. It's all about context - the word "nigger" is acceptable when used by black people but not by white people because it's one thing to mock yourself and another to be mocked by someone else. The level of offense is different when used by someone from another oppressed/disempowered group. Of course, Fenian isn't anywhere near as offensive a term, as far as I know.
As for an insult turning into a badge of honour - you need only look at the terms Tory and Whig
Ian
On 3/21/06, Guettarda guettarda@gmail.com wrote:
Actually it does matter who uses a word. It's all about context - the word "nigger" is acceptable when used by black people but not by white people because it's one thing to mock yourself and another to be mocked by someone else. The level of offense is different when used by someone from another oppressed/disempowered group. Of course, Fenian isn't anywhere near as offensive a term, as far as I know.
My point is - it's not acceptable in a user name (or probably user page either) by anyone on Wikipedia, regardless of their membership of any particular group. We're definitely not into treating different races differently!
Steve
On 3/20/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
Our article on Fenian says: "Fenian is a term used since the 1860s for an Irish nationalist who espouses or is perceived to espouse violence against British rule, usually by people opposed to their aims."
Apparently it's a politically incorrect word used to insult someone with a particular belief. Combined with the word swine, I would very much think this to be an offensive username (and I'm Dutch not British). Please forgive me if it has been addrsssed before, but has anyone ever asked him to change his username?
Well, if the username is the issue, that's different. We at least theoretically have a rule against politically charged usernames, and if enough people complain, he should change it...
Steve
He doesn't seem to be the the kind of fellow I'd like to have a beer with, and his userpage is not pleasant, and if he ever got an RfA I'd oppose solely based on it, but it's not nearly enough to block him, in my opinion.
--Oskar
On 3/20/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Could somebody who is not British (and therefore the target of this user's ire) please review this user page for me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fenian_Swine
I think it violates a few policies and sundry guidelines (including, arguably, user naming) but being British I can't really call myself unbiased here, and even if I were I can't go along and say anything without merely reinforcing his prejudices. Guy (JzG) -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
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