Hi, I'm looking for some advice about links and embeds. I see there are regular IMDB and TV.com links in the TV and film pages. I'm from the team developing the new film and TV search site LocateTV, which allows you to search for when a programme, film or actor is next on TV, online or on DVD, specific to your region. We also have embeds for bloggers to put straight on their pages linking readers to the content. I thought this could be a great addition to the Wiki pages but I understand there is a very unbranded / democratic feel to Wiki. Can anyone advise me if, considering other sites are routinely linked to, it would be possible to put these embeds up or just links? We don't want to tread on any toes!
On 20/09/2007, Lottie B lottie@locatetvblog.com wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for some advice about links and embeds. I see there are regular IMDB and TV.com links in the TV and film pages. I'm from the team developing the new film and TV search site LocateTV, which allows you to search for when a programme, film or actor is next on TV, online or on DVD, specific to your region. We also have embeds for bloggers to put straight on their pages linking readers to the content. I thought this could be a great addition to the Wiki pages but I understand there is a very unbranded / democratic feel to Wiki. Can anyone advise me if, considering other sites are routinely linked to, it would be possible to put these embeds up or just links? We don't want to tread on any toes!
Short answer no.
Slightly longer answer unless the community decides your content is very very good no.
On 20/09/2007, Lottie B lottie@locatetvblog.com wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for some advice about links and embeds. I see there are regular IMDB and TV.com links in the TV and film pages. I'm from the team developing the new film and TV search site LocateTV, which allows you to search for when a programme, film or actor is next on TV, online or on DVD, specific to your region. We also have embeds for bloggers to put straight on their pages linking readers to the content. I thought this could be a great addition to the Wiki pages but I understand there is a very unbranded / democratic feel to Wiki. Can anyone advise me if, considering other sites are routinely linked to, it would be possible to put these embeds up or just links? We don't want to tread on any toes!
The prominent and repeated links to IMDB are a very anomalous situation - they're there because IMDB has a very high reputation, a very prominent role in its niche, and astonishing breadth of coverage. In short, they're ubiquitous because it was *already* very good.
They were selected by our writers, not by any action on the part of IMDB; there was no central editorial decision to "partner with" IMDB or to systematically link to them because they asked us.
It is very, very unlikely we'll choose to systematically link to another external site to that degree across tens of thousands of articles; it's vanishingly unlikely we'll do it when that site is newly created and looking for exposure.
Hi Lottie,
First of all, and with appreciation, thank you for your care and forethought. We do try to maintain a certain standard and abide by policies and communal agreement on matters such as links, and it's far better to discuss these amicably than any other way.
Since you don't give full details, the easiest way to start is with a general overview, and then if you have questions please do come back with them -- we'll be glad to discuss. Anyhow, here's the brief version. I'll add links to relevant pages as I go, for you to read further.
Wikipedia (as you know) is an encyclopedia. That means in practical terms a few important factors kick into play that affect every edit, every editorial contribution, and every link. The following summarizes these in lay-terms; policies contain specific definitions which can be referred to for the detail:
** Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Some things, although very useful or interesting, just don't belong in it. There are policies that will summarize what sort of content is (or is not) suitable as subject matter of an article. Broadly it must be suitable content, the facts must be verifiable, and it must have a degree of notability and an ability to have a neutral article with some kind of substance written about it.
** Within articles, we document facts. The facts we include must be capable of being sourced from "reliable sources" -- that is, independent sources which one might judge are likely to report what is said, with some kind of credibility or reliability. We avoid citing facts that cannot be checked, information which is just an editor's opinion, and the like. This is why sites like IMDB are cited -- so people can check where we get the facts we state, and that they are correctly stated, their context, and so on.
** Wikipedia is neutral. We don't include or exclude things, except in extreme cases (legal, harassment etc) that take a side or a stance, as far as possible. If we did, then we would lose our value as a reference source. As a corollary, we have strict policies against self-promotion, and conflict of interest. We also are more interested in documenting subjects, than providing links to commercial suppliers, unless highly relevant -- using articles as a means to aid commercial ventures runs contrary to neutrality. We usually judge editors by how they act though; an editor capable of editing neutrally will usually be able to do so, their edits will probably receive higher scrutiny however.
** We have policies on external links. Links exist selectively, to provide valued resources as one might expect in an encyclopedia or reference source. There are many, many sites and web pages for some things. But we link only those with significant reference value on the subject. Given a choice we choose sources selectively.
Useful links for these and other policies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_your_sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars (a quick summary)
If you'd like to explain in a bit more detail, then you'll get a ready response from this mailing list. But I think what matters is this:
Wikipedia links to sites as a way to ensure it is basing its articles upon cited verifiable information. There is no policy that IMDB or any site must (or will) be always applicable, or any site, nor does any site have a license or "permission" to be cited. If it's appropriate to an article, fine, if not then not. Individual editors, or editorial groups working collaboratively, make decisions on this, case by case.
The issue you are likely to face, if I understand your request correctly, is that you want your site linked to as a resource on various TV related matters, because it's useful. Wikipedia is more about what's factual and encyclopedic. Much useful content is simply not relevant to an encyclopedia that acts as a reference work on many subjects. We don't usually "embed" special code (RSS, rich media, etc) or custom external search tools as a norm, for the same reasons. Wikipedia aims to simply be an encyclopedia, when all said and done, and a reputation for commercial linking would harm our ability to do this as well.
But without more detail what exactly you are thinking, it's hard to say more.
If you have more questions, or I've misunderstood your inquiry, please do reply,
Best,
FT2
-----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Lottie B Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:58 PM To: WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] Embeds and links on Wiki pages?
Hi, I'm looking for some advice about links and embeds. I see there are regular IMDB and TV.com links in the TV and film pages. I'm from the team developing the new film and TV search site LocateTV, which allows you to search for when a programme, film or actor is next on TV, online or on DVD, specific to your region. We also have embeds for bloggers to put straight on their pages linking readers to the content. I thought this could be a great addition to the Wiki pages but I understand there is a very unbranded / democratic feel to Wiki. Can anyone advise me if, considering other sites are routinely linked to, it would be possible to put these embeds up or just links? We don't want to tread on any toes!
Thanks very much for your replies, I really appreciate that you've taken time to explain everything fully. I must admit I was a bit confused by the IMDB / TV Guide links as I assumed Wiki didn't employ any standard outside links but I see how they provide 'useful' information.
I also completely understand that as LocateTV is just starting out it doesn't have much authority/reputation so I can well understand caution and scepticism!
I suppose my only further comment would be that LocateTV is indeed providing 'facts' and is not a commercial venture trying to sell something - the facts being when and where content is next on, and in a more comprehensive way than something like TV Guide (which I would think would be seen as more commercial) - as it covers UK and US region and all TV channels/online/DVD too and goes two weeks in advance. It is being designed very much on a 'Google' model to be a reference site (it has no 'opinion' columns, forums, polls, gossip etc - just the info).
I certainly understand that it may be completely unsuitable but having seen the other links I thought it was worth consulting you! - maybe the best thing is for you to have a look for yourselves and keep an eye on whether you think it might be a genuinely informative resource. It goes public in a week but if anyone fancies a private beta pass beforehand drop me a line.
Thanks again for all the help and the generally friendly responses.
Cheers, Lottie
FT2 wrote:
Hi Lottie,
First of all, and with appreciation, thank you for your care and forethought. We do try to maintain a certain standard and abide by policies and communal agreement on matters such as links, and it's far better to discuss these amicably than any other way.
Since you don't give full details, the easiest way to start is with a general overview, and then if you have questions please do come back with them -- we'll be glad to discuss. Anyhow, here's the brief version. I'll add links to relevant pages as I go, for you to read further.
Wikipedia (as you know) is an encyclopedia. That means in practical terms a few important factors kick into play that affect every edit, every editorial contribution, and every link. The following summarizes these in lay-terms; policies contain specific definitions which can be referred to for the detail:
** Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Some things, although very useful orinteresting, just don't belong in it. There are policies that will summarize what sort of content is (or is not) suitable as subject matter of an article. Broadly it must be suitable content, the facts must be verifiable, and it must have a degree of notability and an ability to have a neutral article with some kind of substance written about it.
** Within articles, we document facts. The facts we include must becapable of being sourced from "reliable sources" -- that is, independent sources which one might judge are likely to report what is said, with some kind of credibility or reliability. We avoid citing facts that cannot be checked, information which is just an editor's opinion, and the like. This is why sites like IMDB are cited -- so people can check where we get the facts we state, and that they are correctly stated, their context, and so on.
** Wikipedia is neutral. We don't include or exclude things, except inextreme cases (legal, harassment etc) that take a side or a stance, as far as possible. If we did, then we would lose our value as a reference source. As a corollary, we have strict policies against self-promotion, and conflict of interest. We also are more interested in documenting subjects, than providing links to commercial suppliers, unless highly relevant -- using articles as a means to aid commercial ventures runs contrary to neutrality. We usually judge editors by how they act though; an editor capable of editing neutrally will usually be able to do so, their edits will probably receive higher scrutiny however.
** We have policies on external links. Links exist selectively, toprovide valued resources as one might expect in an encyclopedia or reference source. There are many, many sites and web pages for some things. But we link only those with significant reference value on the subject. Given a choice we choose sources selectively.
Useful links for these and other policies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_your_sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars (a quick summary)
If you'd like to explain in a bit more detail, then you'll get a ready response from this mailing list. But I think what matters is this:
Wikipedia links to sites as a way to ensure it is basing its articles upon cited verifiable information. There is no policy that IMDB or any site must (or will) be always applicable, or any site, nor does any site have a license or "permission" to be cited. If it's appropriate to an article, fine, if not then not. Individual editors, or editorial groups working collaboratively, make decisions on this, case by case.
The issue you are likely to face, if I understand your request correctly, is that you want your site linked to as a resource on various TV related matters, because it's useful. Wikipedia is more about what's factual and encyclopedic. Much useful content is simply not relevant to an encyclopedia that acts as a reference work on many subjects. We don't usually "embed" special code (RSS, rich media, etc) or custom external search tools as a norm, for the same reasons. Wikipedia aims to simply be an encyclopedia, when all said and done, and a reputation for commercial linking would harm our ability to do this as well.
But without more detail what exactly you are thinking, it's hard to say more.
If you have more questions, or I've misunderstood your inquiry, please do reply,
Best,
FT2
-----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Lottie B Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:58 PM To: WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] Embeds and links on Wiki pages?
Hi, I'm looking for some advice about links and embeds. I see there are regular IMDB and TV.com links in the TV and film pages. I'm from the team developing the new film and TV search site LocateTV, which allows you to search for when a programme, film or actor is next on TV, online or on DVD, specific to your region. We also have embeds for bloggers to put straight on their pages linking readers to the content. I thought this could be a great addition to the Wiki pages but I understand there is a very unbranded / democratic feel to Wiki. Can anyone advise me if, considering other sites are routinely linked to, it would be possible to put these embeds up or just links? We don't want to tread on any toes!
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