Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
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Yes, anything as utterly important as the Heimlich Manoeuvre needs to be directly quoted from a medical source. We are talking people's immediate safety.
mboverload
On 7/27/06, zero 0000 nought_0000@yahoo.com wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
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Perhaps not quoted, but a few good sources to back it up can't hurt.
Mgm
On 7/28/06, mboverload mboverload@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, anything as utterly important as the Heimlich Manoeuvre needs to be directly quoted from a medical source. We are talking people's immediate safety.
mboverload
On 7/27/06, zero 0000 nought_0000@yahoo.com wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
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Directly referenced inline, that's probably a better solution.
On 7/28/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps not quoted, but a few good sources to back it up can't hurt.
Mgm
On 7/28/06, mboverload mboverload@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, anything as utterly important as the Heimlich Manoeuvre needs to be directly quoted from a medical source. We are talking people's
immediate
safety.
mboverload
On 7/27/06, zero 0000 nought_0000@yahoo.com wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
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On 7/28/06, zero 0000 nought_0000@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
There is.
On 7/28/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/28/06, zero 0000 nought_0000@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
There is.
For those of you playing at home, that's [[Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer]]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Medical_disclaimer
Despite the disclaimer, it's certainly a good idea to keep detailed descriptions of procedures down to a brief, concise selection from a textbook or similar work. This has the advantages of limiting the impact of the editing process on fuddling the accuracy of the description, and funnelling readers away from the wiki and to sources more appropriate for the context.
On Jul 27, 2006, at 11:14 PM, zero 0000 wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
This is the Heimlich Manoeuvre and it would be very irresponsible not to have detailed advice.
Fred
Fred Bauder wrote:
On Jul 27, 2006, at 11:14 PM, zero 0000 wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
Zero.
This is the Heimlich Manoeuvre and it would be very irresponsible not to have detailed advice.
As the article notes:
Some countries such as Australia have banned its use in favour of safer, more effective techniques.
It is entirely irresponsible to be promoting it *at all*.
The last sentence of the lede,
The thrust was later mastered by Dr. Earl Peters in the early 80's and became the universal way to stop a person from choking.
is also completely wrong and incredibly Americentric.
On Jul 28, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
This is the Heimlich Manoeuvre and it would be very irresponsible not to have detailed advice.
As the article notes:
Some countries such as Australia have banned its use in favour of safer, more effective techniques.
It is entirely irresponsible to be promoting it *at all*.
The last sentence of the lead,
The thrust was later mastered by Dr. Earl Peters in the early 80's and became the universal way to stop a person from choking.
is also completely wrong and incredibly Americentric.
But in the movie Groundhog Day the weatherman saves a life by using the Heimlick Manoeuvre, and in the TV ad for the National Bank of Scotland, same thing.
Right though, the article could be improved, especially to report differences in medical opinion.
Fred
On 7/28/06, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
Steve
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/28/06, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary. I am therefore inclined to suspect that someone made it up.
Timwi
Timwi wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/28/06, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary. I am therefore inclined to suspect that someone made it up.
Timwi
It's in the OED as a variant used in the 14th-16th centuries.
adam
Timwi wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary.
How hard did you look? The first three google hits are to
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20001128
lede... refers to the opening lines of a newspaper article, also called the "lead."
http://www.uark.edu/~kshurlds/FOJ/HW2.html
Lede is often spelled lead. The odd spelling was adopted...
and Wikipedia's own http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_style
The most important structural element of a story is the lead -- namely contained in the story's first sentence (sometimes spelled lede to avoid confusion with...
Steve Summit wrote:
Timwi wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary.
How hard did you look? The first three google hits are
anything but dictionaries.
Also see adam's reply :)
Timwi wrote:
Steve Summit wrote:
Timwi wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary.
How hard did you look? The first three google hits are
anything but dictionaries.
Random House publishes dictionaries; therefore I class them as a dictionary site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_House sayeth:
Random House entered reference publishing in 1947 with the American College Dictionary, which was followed in 1966 by its first unabridged dictionary. It publishes today the Random House Webster's Unabridged and Random House Webster's College dictionaries, probably the main competitors for Merriam-Webster reference titles.
Timwi wrote:
Also see adam's reply :)
Just because it's "archaic" doesn't mean it's wrong; Americans should be well aware of this, given the "archaic" forms of words which are now found primarily in American English, while Commonwealth English adopted more "modern" French-derived words or spellings.
Steve Summit wrote:
Timwi wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary.
How hard did you look? The first three google hits are to
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20001128
lede... refers to the opening lines of a newspaper article, also called the "lead."
http://www.uark.edu/~kshurlds/FOJ/HW2.html
Lede is often spelled lead. The odd spelling was adopted...
and Wikipedia's own http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_style
The most important structural element of a story is the lead -- namely contained in the story's first sentence (sometimes spelled lede to avoid confusion with...
That mention in Wikipedia was undocumented too.
Ec
Forgive me.. perhaps I missed something.. but what does this have to do with medical advice?
D
On 8/14/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Steve Summit wrote:
Timwi wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary.
How hard did you look? The first three google hits are to
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20001128
lede... refers to the opening lines of a newspaper article, also called the "lead."http://www.uark.edu/~kshurlds/FOJ/HW2.html
Lede is often spelled lead. The odd spelling was adopted...and Wikipedia's own http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_style
The most important structural element of a story is the lead -- namely contained in the story's first sentence (sometimes spelled lede to avoid confusion with...That mention in Wikipedia was undocumented too.
Ec
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On 8/13/06, Deon Wentworth dwen92@gmail.com wrote:
Forgive me.. perhaps I missed something.. but what does this have to do with medical advice?
I believe a while ago, when the thread began, it was actually on topic.
-Matt
Deon Wentworth wrote:
Forgive me.. perhaps I missed something.. but what does this have to do with medical advice?
Ray just likes trolling me.
Ah fair enough :)
On 8/15/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Deon Wentworth wrote:
Forgive me.. perhaps I missed something.. but what does this have to do
with
medical advice?
Ray just likes trolling me.
-- Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
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Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Deon Wentworth wrote:
Forgive me.. perhaps I missed something.. but what does this have to do with medical advice?
Ray just likes trolling me.
Get it right! That comment of yours to which I responded had nothing to do with medical advice to start with; I have no idea where you got the subject line from.
Ec
Ray Saintonge wrote:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Deon Wentworth wrote:
Forgive me.. perhaps I missed something.. but what does this have to do with medical advice?
Ray just likes trolling me.
Get it right! That comment of yours to which I responded had nothing to do with medical advice to start with; I have no idea where you got the subject line from.
Perhaps you could try the archives.
On 2006-07-28, zero 0000 wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just noticed that [[Abdominal thrusts]] gives detailed advice on how to perform a medical procedure. Maybe there are other such articles too. Given the fashionable practice of filing suit whenever a medical procedure fails to work, it seems to me that this is rather dangerous for Wikipedia. Wouldn't it be legally safer (and more likely to be medically correct) if the actual procedure in such articles was presented as a direct quotation from a named medical authority? With permission, of course. Maybe there should also be a disclaimer.
A few hours later, Fred Bauder wrote: <snip quote>
This is the Heimlich Manoeuvre and it would be very irresponsible not to have detailed advice.
A few hours after that, I wrote: <snip quote> <snip other stuff>
The last sentence of the lede,
<snip>
Fred Bauder replied, silently "fixing" the word "lede", after which Steve Bennett wrote: <snip quote>
It actually can be spelt "lede".
At this point some discussion followed about whether it was a valid word or not; because he's such a fan of mine and likes to troll me, Ray dug it up again after two and a half weeks.
Timwi wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/28/06, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
The last sentence of the lead,
It actually can be spelt "lede".
I couldn't find any dictionary that agrees with this other than Wiktionary. I am therefore inclined to suspect that someone made it up.
It's there without evidence, so I've moved that definition to the talk page until someone can come up with proper evidence of this usage.
I could only find evidence for it as a Middle English variant of "lead" in both pronunciations.
Ec
On 28/07/06, Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
is also completely wrong and incredibly Americentric.
But in the movie Groundhog Day the weatherman saves a life by using the Heimlick Manoeuvre, and in the TV ad for the National Bank of Scotland, same thing.
Um... the National Bank of Scotland closed its doors ninety yeard back. I don't think it's doing TV spots...
(I agree on the Amerocentrism. It's not nearly as common a medical practice in Europe)