From: Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com

Regarding at least the political templates, I would like to raise, gently, a different issue. I have concern about people massing together in groups based on political affiliations at Wikipedia.

For me, when I enter Wikipedia, I try to leave my personal politics at the door. I try to leave my personal opinions about religion, etc. at the door. Here, I am a Wikipedian. And this inspires in me a feeling of serious quiet thoughtful reflection. A mood of kindness and love. A mood of helpfulness and productivity. Neutrality and _getting it right_ in the company of others who are doing the same, this is what I'm here for.

Outside, I may be an advocate. But here, I am a Wikipedian.

The point is a good one Jimbo, but it doesn't seem to operate in the real world IMO. People come to the 'pedia with their POVs intact. It would be lovely if they correctly left them at the door but they don't - they're only human.

My userboxes are on my userpage not for my personal gratification, but to make a statement: "My views are...". That way, if ever I get into a NPOV dispute with someone, they can see what I believe and work from that point. In effect, I'm declaring an interest and forcing myself to edit against that type so that no-one can ever say "your edit there betrayed the fact that you are a XXX".

I've found that a lot of POV is subtle. It isn't "George W is a hero"/"George W is a murderer", it's "X church is fundamentalist"/"X church is extreme"/"X church has different views from the majority of Y churches"/"X church is an evangelical church". The choice of words is always going to be POV in those cases.

I declare on my userpage that I am an aethist. Therefore, any edit I make to [[X Church of Y]] should be seen through that prism; and I must ensure that my publically stated views don't show through in that edit.

Of course, I'm also expecting impossibly high standards of others in this - members of X church are just as likely to write NPOV as anyone else. But if they declare on their userpage that they are X church, then it's easier to judge the quality of a disputed edit.

So I'd make the userboxes a requirement if I ruled the world. But I don't (something for which we should all be eternally grateful).

:"REDVERS"

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