My phone number and email are publicly available for media contact purposes. This means, of course, I get emails and calls about *everything*.
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
Now. What's a helpful answer to this? Better than "You don't, someone else has to write one," because you *know* they'll just write a really bad one themselves and it'll all end in a tearful AFD entry and someone hating or fearing Wikipedia henceforth.
Assume that referring them to a web page or policy page is less good than being able to answer on the phone right there.
Ideas please?
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
[...]
Ideas please?
Explain why we discourage autobiography (i.e. explain it as part of high encyclopaedic standards) and point them to [[WP:RA]]?
(I know you didn't want to simply quote a webpage at them, but if you can encourage them to go to [[WP:RA]] and add a simple explanation of why their achievement/book/whatever is encyclopaedic and verifiable enough for us to be interested in it, that gets them off your back and into contributing.)
Cheers,
N.
On 28/09/06, Nick Boalch n.g.boalch@durham.ac.uk wrote:
Explain why we discourage autobiography (i.e. explain it as part of high encyclopaedic standards) and point them to [[WP:RA]]? (I know you didn't want to simply quote a webpage at them, but if you can encourage them to go to [[WP:RA]] and add a simple explanation of why their achievement/book/whatever is encyclopaedic and verifiable enough for us to be interested in it, that gets them off your back and into contributing.)
Hmm, possibly. The last real case of this was yesterday morning. The example is probably notable, but I had to somehow explain this to their publicity person.
(Suggesting an amateur PR person do something is to be approached with *great* care, because you know they'll do it 10000x really badly and everyone they know will also do it 10000x really badly.)
WP:RA might be the go. Does anyone actually look at it and create the articles? I thought it had devolved into a dump for unloved really bad ideas.
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
WP:RA might be the go. Does anyone actually look at it and create the articles? I thought it had devolved into a dump for unloved really bad ideas.
Well, I just had a look at it and it certainly has several dump-like qualities. There are far too many entires that are just names or topics without any explanation of why they'd be a useful article. I might give it some TLC over the next few days.
Cheers,
N.
On 28/09/06, Nick Boalch n.g.boalch@durham.ac.uk wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
WP:RA might be the go. Does anyone actually look at it and create the articles? I thought it had devolved into a dump for unloved really bad ideas.
Well, I just had a look at it and it certainly has several dump-like qualities. There are far too many entires that are just names or topics without any explanation of why they'd be a useful article. I might give it some TLC over the next few days.
If you think it's saveable, that'd solve my problems nicely.
- d.
On 9/28/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
My phone number and email are publicly available for media contact purposes. This means, of course, I get emails and calls about *everything*.
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
Now. What's a helpful answer to this? Better than "You don't, someone else has to write one," because you *know* they'll just write a really bad one themselves and it'll all end in a tearful AFD entry and someone hating or fearing Wikipedia henceforth.
Assume that referring them to a web page or policy page is less good than being able to answer on the phone right there.
Ideas please?
- d.
Fist off all, this should really be in our FAQ (I've just skimmed over it, man it's big, and I couldn't find it). Someone should put that in.
To answer your question, if I were to get those calls I would calmly explain that we have fairly high standards on what people can be subjects of articles. Tell them that if they deserve to have an article in wikipedia, they will. Just not written on request or by themselves. Point out that if they do write an article on themselves, it is very likely it will be deleted and it is not always a nice discussion to read. You might also want to point out that you yourself doesn't have an article, I can imagine that would convince some people ;)
But hey, it's not me who gets the calls, what do I know. That's how I would handle it anyway.
--Oskar
On 28/09/06, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
Fist off all, this should really be in our FAQ (I've just skimmed over it, man it's big, and I couldn't find it). Someone should put that in.
Yep. "Put a note on [[WP:RA]] with a few good third-party references" should cover it, if a note on WP:RA will actually lead to an article.
(I'm sure the brilliantly concise writers who hang around Wikipedia policy pages will work out a way to expand that simple sentence into a four-sentence paragraph consisting almost entirely of modifier clauses.)
- d.
On 28 Sep 2006, at 12:36, Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
On 9/28/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
My phone number and email are publicly available for media contact purposes. This means, of course, I get emails and calls about *everything*.
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
Now. What's a helpful answer to this? Better than "You don't, someone else has to write one," because you *know* they'll just write a really bad one themselves and it'll all end in a tearful AFD entry and someone hating or fearing Wikipedia henceforth.
Assume that referring them to a web page or policy page is less good than being able to answer on the phone right there.
Ideas please?
- d.
Fist off all, this should really be in our FAQ (I've just skimmed over it, man it's big, and I couldn't find it). Someone should put that in.
To answer your question, if I were to get those calls I would calmly explain that we have fairly high standards on what people can be subjects of articles. Tell them that if they deserve to have an article in wikipedia, they will. Just not written on request or by themselves. Point out that if they do write an article on themselves, it is very likely it will be deleted and it is not always a nice discussion to read. You might also want to point out that you yourself doesn't have an article, I can imagine that would convince some people ;)
I would suggest that they start contributing to Wikipedia. After a period, their name will be recognised by other passing editors who will be surprised that they don't have an article yet, and they will write one.
Hang on, if the PR people start contributing, odds are that sooner or later they'll write an article (not on themselves or a client, just in general) and then they'll have a confronting AfD and leave Wikipedia permanently. What can we do about encouraging people to contribute without creating policy violating articles? Of course, I know when I started out editing, I created [[Php MMORPG]] and [[Telstra India Call Centre Clip]]. The former I speedied and the latter was prodded by another editor, then prod2ed it and in the end both were deleted. These articles didn't conform to policy in terms of notability or referencing, and weren't worth keeping, but I (as a relatively normal policy-unaware contributor at the time) didn't know any of this. Maybe the welcome templates should link to simplified versions of article creation guidelines?
On 9/28/06, Stephen Streater sbstreater@mac.com wrote:
On 28 Sep 2006, at 12:36, Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
On 9/28/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
My phone number and email are publicly available for media contact purposes. This means, of course, I get emails and calls about *everything*.
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
Now. What's a helpful answer to this? Better than "You don't, someone else has to write one," because you *know* they'll just write a really bad one themselves and it'll all end in a tearful AFD entry and someone hating or fearing Wikipedia henceforth.
Assume that referring them to a web page or policy page is less good than being able to answer on the phone right there.
Ideas please?
- d.
Fist off all, this should really be in our FAQ (I've just skimmed over it, man it's big, and I couldn't find it). Someone should put that in.
To answer your question, if I were to get those calls I would calmly explain that we have fairly high standards on what people can be subjects of articles. Tell them that if they deserve to have an article in wikipedia, they will. Just not written on request or by themselves. Point out that if they do write an article on themselves, it is very likely it will be deleted and it is not always a nice discussion to read. You might also want to point out that you yourself doesn't have an article, I can imagine that would convince some people ;)
I would suggest that they start contributing to Wikipedia. After a period, their name will be recognised by other passing editors who will be surprised that they don't have an article yet, and they will write one.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Akash Mehta wrote:
Hang on, if the PR people start contributing, odds are that sooner or later they'll write an article (not on themselves or a client, just in general) and then they'll have a confronting AfD and leave Wikipedia permanently. What can we do about encouraging people to contribute without creating policy violating articles? (snip) Maybe the welcome templates should link to simplified versions of
article creation guidelines?
The problem is that most hired PR people will not have the same attitude as you - they will take great offence when 'their' article is deleted. No matter how clear we make the policy, we can't legislate for people taking offence just because we enforce it.
Cynical
On 9/28/06, Stephen Streater sbstreater@mac.com wrote:
On 28 Sep 2006, at 12:36, Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
On 9/28/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
My phone number and email are publicly available for media contact purposes. This means, of course, I get emails and calls about *everything*.
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
Now. What's a helpful answer to this? Better than "You don't, someone else has to write one," because you *know* they'll just write a really bad one themselves and it'll all end in a tearful AFD entry and someone hating or fearing Wikipedia henceforth.
Assume that referring them to a web page or policy page is less good than being able to answer on the phone right there.
Ideas please?
- d.
Fist off all, this should really be in our FAQ (I've just skimmed over it, man it's big, and I couldn't find it). Someone should put that in.
To answer your question, if I were to get those calls I would calmly explain that we have fairly high standards on what people can be subjects of articles. Tell them that if they deserve to have an article in wikipedia, they will. Just not written on request or by themselves. Point out that if they do write an article on themselves, it is very likely it will be deleted and it is not always a nice discussion to read. You might also want to point out that you yourself doesn't have an article, I can imagine that would convince some people ;)
I would suggest that they start contributing to Wikipedia. After a period, their name will be recognised by other passing editors who will be surprised that they don't have an article yet, and they will write one.
On 29 Sep 2006, at 04:16, Akash Mehta wrote:
Hang on, if the PR people start contributing, odds are that sooner or later they'll write an article (not on themselves or a client, just in general) and then they'll have a confronting AfD and leave Wikipedia permanently. What can we do about encouraging people to contribute without creating policy violating articles? Of course, I know when I started out editing, I created [[Php MMORPG]] and [[Telstra India Call Centre Clip]]. The former I speedied and the latter was prodded by another editor, then prod2ed it and in the end both were deleted. These articles didn't conform to policy in terms of notability or referencing, and weren't worth keeping, but I (as a relatively normal policy-unaware contributor at the time) didn't know any of this. Maybe the welcome templates should link to simplified versions of article creation guidelines?
Why are you suddenly talking about PR people contributing? It's more useful to have the achievers themselves helping out.
David Gerard wrote:
My phone number and email are publicly available for media contact purposes. This means, of course, I get emails and calls about *everything*.
A common call is "How do I get an article about me/my book/my achievement?"
Now. What's a helpful answer to this? Better than "You don't, someone else has to write one," because you *know* they'll just write a really bad one themselves and it'll all end in a tearful AFD entry and someone hating or fearing Wikipedia henceforth.
Assume that referring them to a web page or policy page is less good than being able to answer on the phone right there.
Ideas please?
Tell them to chuck it on [[WP:AFC]].
(Gosh darnit, someone has got to write a wikilink parser for Thunderbird... does the next version of mIRC support subst: templates with variables yet?)