Considering that we usually don't put some punctuation (; . , :) after headings (section titles), List items, See also listings where a list is utilised, etc etc... I am afraid to say that the current Wikipedia style seems to be unfair to Reading Software (software which converts text into voice, Example: Adobe 6). Reading Software uses the punctuation to make pauses, and cannot get into account the document's markup and format (headings etc). Lately I started putting : after headings and ; or . after list items, but I found the visual result disgusting and hard-to-read. If I don't use the punctuation, the problem is that Reading Software cannot recognize the necessary pauses and as a result the listener has trouble understanding the meaning. I would like to find some way to incorporate some hidden punctuation into the articles, which will be used only by reading software but will be invisible to the user who reads the text on the screen or paper. Do you have any idea on this? If impossible, I propose to think about the issue of reading software and decide on whether punctuation should be used and what kind of punctuation, as an effort to optimise our writing style for Reading Software. Thank you and may you have Peace Profound, --Optim
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On Jan 12, 2004, at 8:28 PM, Nikos-Optim wrote:
I would like to find some way to incorporate some hidden punctuation into the articles, which will be used only by reading software but will be invisible to the user who reads the text on the screen or paper. Do you have any idea on this?
Easiest way is probably to have an equivalent to the "Printable Version" link. Users load the "Speakable Version", complete with punctuation marked-up as hidden, and feed it to the reading software. Voilá!
Peter
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On Tuesday 13 January 2004 04:33, Peter Jaros wrote:
On Jan 12, 2004, at 8:28 PM, Nikos-Optim wrote:
I would like to find some way to incorporate some hidden punctuation into the articles, which will be used only by reading software but will be invisible to the user who reads the text on the screen or paper. Do you have any idea on this?
Easiest way is probably to have an equivalent to the "Printable Version" link. Users load the "Speakable Version", complete with punctuation marked-up as hidden, and feed it to the reading software. Voilá!
There even is no need for any special hidden punctuation: it should not be a problem for the software to automatically add a ; at the end of every heading and list item.
There even is no need for any special hidden punctuation: it should not be a problem for the software to automatically add a ; at the end of every heading and list item.
you mean Wikipedia's software (for the "Speakable Version" link), right?
--Optim
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Nikos-Optim wrote:
There even is no need for any special hidden punctuation: it should not be a problem for the software to automatically add a ; at the end of every heading and list item.
you mean Wikipedia's software (for the "Speakable Version" link), right?
--Optim
Yes, that's the idea, tweaking the Wiki's "rendering" engine as to produce proper "markup" for reading, as opposed to the two existing variants or markup (regular and print).
I also proposed a "simple" rendering version some time ago IIRC, don't remember what came out of that. My idea was to be able to access the articles as plain text -- no links, no images, no markup, no nothing, just plain (maybe flowed, as in the MIME type?) text with proper spacing (one empty line between paragraphs, bullets represented as asterisks and indented lists, etc). That could be used for various purposes, for instance it would make it really easy to integrate in third-party online applications, such as multiplayer games (just one example that came to mind).
--Gutza
yes I like this idea on plain text
--- Gutza gutza@moongate.ro wrote:
Nikos-Optim wrote:
There even is no need for any special hidden punctuation: it should not be a problem for the software to automatically add a ;
at
the end of every heading and list item.
you mean Wikipedia's software (for the "Speakable Version" link), right?
--Optim
Yes, that's the idea, tweaking the Wiki's "rendering" engine as to produce proper "markup" for reading, as opposed to the two existing variants or markup (regular and print).
I also proposed a "simple" rendering version some time ago IIRC, don't remember what came out of that. My idea was to be able to access the articles as plain text -- no links, no images, no markup, no nothing, just plain (maybe flowed, as in the MIME type?) text with proper spacing (one empty line between paragraphs, bullets represented as asterisks and indented lists, etc). That could be used for various purposes, for instance it would make it really easy to integrate in third-party online applications, such as multiplayer games (just one example that came to mind).
--Gutza
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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On Tuesday 13 January 2004 13:27, Nikos-Optim wrote:
There even is no need for any special hidden punctuation: it should not be a problem for the software to automatically add a ; at the end of every heading and list item.
you mean Wikipedia's software (for the "Speakable Version" link), right?
Yes.
Nikos-Optim wrote:
Considering that we usually don't put some punctuation (; . , :) after headings (section titles), List items, See also listings where a list is utilised, etc etc... I am afraid to say that the current Wikipedia style seems to be unfair to Reading Software (software which converts text into voice, Example: Adobe 6). Reading Software uses the punctuation to make pauses, and cannot get into account the document's markup and format (headings etc). Lately I started putting : after headings and ; or . after list items, but I found the visual result disgusting and hard-to-read.
I am aware of this problem. I must say that in this instance, it is the reading software that is broken and must be fixed. It SHOULD know to pause after a H* HTML element!!!!!
* tarquin tarquin@planetunreal.com [2004-01-13]:
I am aware of this problem. I must say that in this instance, it is the reading software that is broken and must be fixed. It SHOULD know to pause after a H* HTML element!!!!!
It sounded quite obvious to me that the software should know that: the reader (adobe) is to blame, not the writer (in this case WP), if it cannot make a heading from ordinary text.
Pedro.