Ed Poor wrote,
Googling the quoted definition easily shows that several sources regard "private ownership of the means of production" as an essential part of the "Marxist definition" of Capitalism.
Alas, sometimes the Web is not the best place to do research. I think if Wikipedia wants to establish itself as an outstanding on-line encyclopedia, its editors sometimes have to do some off-line research.
In most of the cases Ed is referring to, people are taking sentences by Marx and Engels out of context. Abolishing the private ownership of capital is but one element of the communist program -- but that doesn't mean that they defined capitalism as ownership of the means of production. Another part of their program was free education for children -- certainly we don't think that the "Marxist" definition of capitalism is a system where children are uneducated! Moreover, in the Communist Manifesto they actually argue that capitalism is destroying private property! And in various other books by Marx, Marx and Engels, and their followers, they define capitalism quite differently.
In any event, Ed at least provided an actual source. Now we can have hopefully fruitful discussion of the usefulness of this source, if there are better sources, etc. In short, what Ed wrote was verifiable.
Several weeks ago Ultramarine and I asked RJII to provide his source. Now, wouldn't it have saved everyone a lot of trouble if he just provided it?
Steve
Steven L. Rubenstein Associate Professor Department of Sociology and Anthropology Bentley Annex Ohio University Athens, Ohio 45701
steven l. rubenstein wrote:
Ed Poor wrote,
Googling the quoted definition easily shows that several sources regard "private ownership of the means of production" as an essential part of the "Marxist definition" of Capitalism.
Alas, sometimes the Web is not the best place to do research. I think if Wikipedia wants to establish itself as an outstanding on-line encyclopedia, its editors sometimes have to do some off-line research.
Absolutely. Do we want quantity or quality? It's the difference between a rose and the pile of shit that it grows in ... and the rose still manages to have thorns. The Web is a good place to start research, but a terrible place to end it. If I encounter an idea on the Web I like to look for verification elsewhere.
In most of the cases Ed is referring to, people are taking sentences by Marx and Engels out of context. Abolishing the private ownership of capital is but one element of the communist program -- but that doesn't mean that they defined capitalism as ownership of the means of production. Another part of their program was free education for children -- certainly we don't think that the "Marxist" definition of capitalism is a system where children are uneducated! Moreover, in the Communist Manifesto they actually argue that capitalism is destroying private property! And in various other books by Marx, Marx and Engels, and their followers, they define capitalism quite differently.
In any event, Ed at least provided an actual source. Now we can have hopefully fruitful discussion of the usefulness of this source, if there are better sources, etc. In short, what Ed wrote was verifiable.
Ed is Ed. His ideas may be way off in <s>left</s> right field but there is a certain honesty about his expression that you would hope would be learned by others with similar ideas.
Ec