Note: forwarded message attached.
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Anthere, you're a woman, aren't you? Are you trying to claim that my fight on this subject is somehow gender-based? Zoe Anthere anthere6@yahoo.com wrote: Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: Anthere Subject: [WikiEN-l] The MIT vandal is back
To: wikien-l@wikipedia.com
On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 12:32:27PM -0800, Zoe wrote:
It's the exact same wording as the text inserted
by the MIT >>vandal. I asked the person inserting it to give us some >>information to prove the assertion, and I asked if it was true >>for the entire world, or only certain cultures. The person >>declined to do so.
The information is not misogynistic, it is true.
Labelling >this person a vandal does a disservice to the Wikipedia. The >traditional treatment in the West for hysteria was for the >doctor to massage a womans genitals by hand until she got some >relief. The most extreme forms of hysteria are not seen very >much in modern times; some attribute this to a greater interest >in giving sexual satisfaction to women. The milder forms of
hysteria still abound; if males have a propensity for
hysteria, >it is socialized out of them at a very young age.
Jonathan
Interesting comment Jonathan
Made me think of what Clement Rosset says about passion and hysteria...
He usually approaches notions by paradox, and studied fallacious causes of suffering, in particular the generally accepted idea by which love is the main passion. He says love becomes a passion only when it ceases aiming at a real person, but rather toward an person or an object absent or unreal. Becoming a passion makes it cease being love. Passion would be the stuborn research of misfortune (or unhappiness), and as such be related to hysteria.
It's interesting Zoe is fighting so much against the addition ''more women than men suffer from [[hysteria]]''...There's no article on hysteria on wikipedia by the way.
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--- Zoe zoecomnena@yahoo.com wrote:
Anthere, you're a woman, aren't you? Are you trying to claim that my fight on this subject is somehow gender-based? Zoe
Uh ? Dunno. I don't follow your edits, so I wouldn't be able to say whether you are biased or not. Probably not ;-)
But, being women, and being few, I think we are probably a bit biased in the articles we *choose* to create, edit or monitor.
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Reply way down at the bottom.
|From: Anthere anthere6@yahoo.com |Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:53:20 -0800 (PST) | |Note: forwarded message attached. | | |__________________________________________________ | |Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:49:35 -0800 (PST) |From: Anthere anthere6@yahoo.com |Subject: [WikiEN-l] The MIT vandal is back | |To: wikien-l@wikipedia.com | |On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 12:32:27PM -0800, Zoe wrote: |>> It's the exact same wording as the text inserted |by the MIT >>vandal. I asked the person inserting it |to give us some >>information to prove the assertion, |and I asked if it was true >>for the entire world, or |only certain cultures. The person >>declined to do |so. | |>The information is not misogynistic, it is true. |Labelling >this person a vandal does a disservice to |the Wikipedia. The >traditional treatment in the West |for hysteria was for the >doctor to massage a womans |genitals by hand until she got some >relief. The most |extreme forms of hysteria are not seen very >much in |modern times; some attribute this to a greater |interest >in giving sexual satisfaction to women. The |milder forms of |>hysteria still abound; if males have a propensity for |hysteria, >it is socialized out of them at a very |young age. | |>Jonathan | |Interesting comment Jonathan | |Made me think of what Clement Rosset says about |passion and hysteria... | |He usually approaches notions by paradox, and studied |fallacious causes of suffering, in particular the |generally accepted idea by which love is the main |passion. He says love becomes a passion only when it |ceases aiming at a real person, but rather toward an |person or an object absent or unreal. Becoming a |passion makes it cease being love. Passion would be |the stuborn research of misfortune (or unhappiness), |and as such be related to hysteria. | |It's interesting Zoe is fighting so much against the |addition ''more women than men suffer from |[[hysteria]]''...There's no article on hysteria on |wikipedia by the way. |
If we had an article on hysteria it would be described as a discredited 19th century diagnosis closely tied to the sexual repression of women that nonetheless was a major stimulus to Sigmund Freud's thinking. No one is diagnosed as hysterical today and much of Freud's thinking is regarded as historically important but non-scientific at this point.
It's interesting that when people want to slip in something dubious, they start with the phrase "It's interesting . . . " If you want to state that someone is being hysterical here, say so and take the consequences.
The other disputed diagnoses, histrionic personality disorder, etc., are more common among women (in the west), just as antisocial personality disorder is more common among men, but the diagnosis of hysteria is simply not given to either men or women.
Tom Parmenter Ortolan88
--- Tom Parmenter tompar@world.std.com wrote:
Reply way down at the bottom.
|From: Anthere anthere6@yahoo.com |Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:53:20 -0800 (PST) | |Note: forwarded message attached. | | |__________________________________________________ | |Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:49:35 -0800 (PST) |From: Anthere anthere6@yahoo.com |Subject: [WikiEN-l] The MIT vandal is back | |To: wikien-l@wikipedia.com | |On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 12:32:27PM -0800, Zoe wrote: |>> It's the exact same wording as the text inserted |by the MIT >>vandal. I asked the person inserting it |to give us some >>information to prove the assertion, |and I asked if it was true >>for the entire world, or |only certain cultures. The person >>declined to do |so. | |>The information is not misogynistic, it is true. |Labelling >this person a vandal does a disservice to |the Wikipedia. The >traditional treatment in the West |for hysteria was for the >doctor to massage a womans |genitals by hand until she got some >relief. The most |extreme forms of hysteria are not seen very >much in |modern times; some attribute this to a greater |interest >in giving sexual satisfaction to women. The |milder forms of |>hysteria still abound; if males have a propensity for |hysteria, >it is socialized out of them at a very |young age. | |>Jonathan | |Interesting comment Jonathan | |Made me think of what Clement Rosset says about |passion and hysteria... | |He usually approaches notions by paradox, and studied |fallacious causes of suffering, in particular the |generally accepted idea by which love is the main |passion. He says love becomes a passion only when it |ceases aiming at a real person, but rather toward an |person or an object absent or unreal. Becoming a |passion makes it cease being love. Passion would be |the stuborn research of misfortune (or unhappiness), |and as such be related to hysteria. | |It's interesting Zoe is fighting so much against the |addition ''more women than men suffer from |[[hysteria]]''...There's no article on hysteria on |wikipedia by the way. |
If we had an article on hysteria it would be described as a discredited 19th century diagnosis closely tied to the sexual repression of women that nonetheless was a major stimulus to Sigmund Freud's thinking. No one is diagnosed as hysterical today and much of Freud's thinking is regarded as historically important but non-scientific at this point.
Ah ??? Wellll... First, let's say I had the opportunity to spend more time than I would have liked in a couple of psychiatrist hospitals (not for me :-)), and to speak to more than one psychiatrist in the past 15 years. The given diagnosis involved the words "hyst�rie", "n�vrose" and "bouff�es d�lirantes", and hysteria certainly was a word I heard more than once from the doctors...and it was also clearly associated with "you know, she is very lonely...". But...they don't appear to massage women genitals to help cure the problem any more :-) (I didnot know that was done at some point) However, you will understand I hope that I am not entirely convinced when you say no one is diagnosed with hysteria anymore.
Of course, "hysterical" is still very much in use here too (but maybe is it a non-politically correct word in the us ?), especially given by men to feminists (with the very rude comment : "if she had a real man to fill her up more often, she would not make so much noise")
It's interesting that when people want to slip in something dubious, they start with the phrase "It's interesting . . . " If you want to state that someone is being hysterical here, say so and take the consequences.
What is the dubious thing you want to slip here then ? Do you imply I was accusing both Jonathan and Zoe of being victims of hysteria ? If so, say it clearly please
The other disputed diagnoses, histrionic personality disorder, etc., are more common among women (in the west), just as antisocial personality disorder is more common among men, but the diagnosis of hysteria is simply not given to either men or women.
Then, I am doubly interested (without any slip) in someone writing an article on hysteria, for it is clear to me that french people are still suffering from it but not english people. And, here, I truely have no explanation (and imply nothing more than what I just said)
Anthere
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