#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
- d.
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
Either fully associate them with Wikipedia/Foundation and make them 100% liable, publically logged, and actionable per all Wikipedia policies, or else completely disassociate, unendorse, and cut off any and all sanctioned relationship between the encyclopedias/WMF, Freenode, and the channels. The former extends full accountability and would be an endorsement of IRC as a tool. The latter gets all of it out of the WMF's hair, since it's technically "not ours". The latter also means that no one can get in 'trouble' for IRC actions on-Wiki generally speaking, for better or worse, since they will have no relationship to the WP project at that point. I.e., flame and re-post logs to your heart's content, etc. Endorsement obviously is better here. Any word entered on #wikipedia or en-admin will be logged, and you are as responsibile. NPA, CIVIL, HARASS, etc., all rules apply. If the channel moderators/owners refuse to acknowledge or endorse this, disassociate it all, and cut it off.
If someone then tries to complain on-wiki about reposting stuff breaking the channel rules: so what? The channel has nothing to do with Wikipedia or the Foundation! It needs a bullet, one way or the other.
Extend any such action to any and all WMF related IRC channels, including the admin channel of course.
Regards, Joe http://www.joeszilagyi.com
On 22/05/07, Joe Szilagyi szilagyi@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
Either fully associate them with Wikipedia/Foundation and make them 100% liable, publically logged, and actionable per all Wikipedia policies, or else completely disassociate, unendorse, and cut off any and all sanctioned relationship between the encyclopedias/WMF, Freenode, and the channels. The former extends full accountability and would be an endorsement of IRC as a tool. The latter gets all of it out of the WMF's hair, since it's technically "not ours". The latter also means that no one can get in 'trouble' for IRC actions on-Wiki generally speaking, for better or worse, since they will have no relationship to the WP project at that point. I.e ., flame and re-post logs to your heart's content, etc. Endorsement obviously is better here. Any word entered on #wikipedia or en-admin will be logged, and you are as responsibile. NPA, CIVIL, HARASS, etc., all rules apply. If the channel moderators/owners refuse to acknowledge or endorse this, disassociate it all, and cut it off.
If someone then tries to complain on-wiki about reposting stuff breaking the channel rules: so what? The channel has nothing to do with Wikipedia or the Foundation! It needs a bullet, one way or the other.
Extend any such action to any and all WMF related IRC channels, including the admin channel of course.
Regards, Joe http://www.joeszilagyi.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I completely agree with this.
#wikipedia is an IRC channel hosted at Freenode (irc.freenode.net) for those who don't know.
On 22/05/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
It looks like enough people hang around to have moderators enforce rules that are basic common sense which should cut back on any particularly disastrously stupid things. Talking about public relations: how many people outside of Wikipedia actually visit that channel? It can't be a PR disaster if there's no public.
Mgm
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I think David might have been referring to, for example, nefarious users posting public logs which... well, you can imagine what they might show. I myself have found a log while Googling on (I think it was) Wikipedia Watch/Review which shows (among thousands of lines of text) me in #wikipedia conversing with users who were frankly not discussing Wikipedia at all.
On 22/05/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
It looks like enough people hang around to have moderators enforce rules that are basic common sense which should cut back on any particularly disastrously stupid things. Talking about public relations: how many people outside of Wikipedia actually visit that channel? It can't be a PR disaster if there's no public.
Mgm
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
Identify people who are never, ever on-topic. Forward them to #social or #politics or #4chan or whatever would best suit them.
—C.W.
On 5/22/07, Charlotte Webb charlottethewebb@gmail.com wrote:
Identify people who are never, ever on-topic. Forward them to #social or #politics or #4chan or whatever would best suit them.
You want on-topic you talk on-topic or go to #wikipedia-en.
G'day Charlotte,
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
Identify people who are never, ever on-topic. Forward them to #social or #politics or #4chan or whatever would best suit them.
#wikipedia is not a big problem when it's off-topic. Sure, people sometimes chat about topics that some of our trolls think can cause embarrassment (drunkenness, gender issues, sexuality, bunking off work, bunking off school, whatever makes the trolls chuckle), but frankly, that's nobody's business but those who are participating at the time.
When it's on-topic, #wikipedia does indeed start to resemble a public relations disaster waiting to happen. That's when you get the idiotic comments about Daniel Brandt, or the threats, or the intentionally bad advice (funny to the regulars, but who knows what the lurkers are thinking?), or whatever.
You are the owner of XYZ Corp, whose article was recently vandalised. You're pretty cluey about stuff like IRC, so you decide to mosey on over to ask for an admin to keep an eye on the article for you. There you see:
XYZOwner: Hello, can someone help me with my company's article? CharlotteWebb: YOUR COMPANY's article? I think you mean WIKIPEDIA's article. RandomAdmin: I'd better track down this article. Looks like a sure-fire A10. DavidGerard: LOL, you tool. It's A11, duh. fuddlemark: Hey, fuck off, spammer. Go commit [[seppuku]]!
Compare this with entering the channel and finding:
XYZOwner: Hello, can someone help me with my company's article? CharlotteWebb: Hey, did anyone catch /The Simpsons/ last night? fuddlemark: Bah, /The Simpsons/ hasn't been worth watching since season 7. I'm thinking of calling in sick at work tomorrow though so I can watch the film, that might be cool. DavidGerard: Let's get drunk and talk about sexuality!
Cheers,
OMG logging, kickban!
On 5/23/07, Mark Gallagher m.g.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au wrote:
CharlotteWebb: YOUR COMPANY's article? I think you mean WIKIPEDIA's article. RandomAdmin: I'd better track down this article. Looks like a sure-fire A10. DavidGerard: LOL, you tool. It's A11, duh.
Actually, it's G11 (though I'm half-ashamed to remember this. Blame it on the cookie incident.)
fuddlemark: Hey, fuck off, spammer. Go commit [[seppuku]]!
Compare this with entering the channel and finding:
XYZOwner: Hello, can someone help me with my company's article? CharlotteWebb: Hey, did anyone catch /The Simpsons/ last night?
Yeah, this log has obviously been fudged.
fuddlemark: Bah, /The Simpsons/ hasn't been worth watching since season 7. I'm thinking of calling in sick at work tomorrow though so I can watch the film, that might be cool. DavidGerard: Let's get drunk and talk about sexuality!
So all comments made on IRC are either inflammatory or irrelevant (or both!)... D'oh!
—C.W.
On 29/05/07, Charlotte Webb charlottethewebb@gmail.com wrote:
So all comments made on IRC are either inflammatory or irrelevant (or both!)... D'oh!
Why should this Wikipedia editors' forum be different from all other Wikipedia editors' fora...? :)
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
I used to hang out there a fair amount, and I didn't think it was such a horrible place. Well, yeah, it NEVER stayed on-topic and the discussion were... you know... silly. But it does serve a purpose as a place where wikipedians can hang out and converse with each other, you know, socialise. Mingle. Unless it is causing a huge ruckus, I say let it be. As you said, it's a lively and useful hangout.
--Oskar
On 0, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com scribbled:
On 5/22/07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
#wikipedia is a wasteland of stupidity and a public relations disaster in lots of ways. It's also a lively and useful hangout for a lot of editors.
I welcome your thoughts on what, if anything, to do about this.
I used to hang out there a fair amount, and I didn't think it was such a horrible place. Well, yeah, it NEVER stayed on-topic and the discussion were... you know... silly. But it does serve a purpose as a place where wikipedians can hang out and converse with each other, you know, socialise. Mingle. Unless it is causing a huge ruckus, I say let it be. As you said, it's a lively and useful hangout.
--Oskar
Seconded. It's a sight better than Esperanza was! That sort of socializing should be real-time and off-Foundation-projects, and #wikipedia is both.
-- Gwern Inquiring minds want to know.
Someone is in violation of WP:POINT regarding this discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Inciden...
George Herbert wrote:
Someone is in violation of WP:POINT regarding this discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Inciden...
Oh, this is beyond the pale. I go to watch Veronica Mars, come back, and see this?
Y'know, I was angrily frustrated before. Now I'm pissed.
-Jeff